Thermal imaging

[Navigator53]

Since this is way off boating topics, I thought it best to ask the question here.

I've been insulating and sealing up our home.

Does anyone have suggestions on how I can see heat loss and leaks without spending a ton of money?

With the vast backgrounds of boaters on this site, I was hoping someone would have some ideas :argh

Mel

[Randygh]

What about a night vision scope? Aren't some of the night vision apparati infra red that detect heat? I've seen some night flight deer survey picts that were taken using FLIR and wildlife bio's have told me they can see where a deer crapped if there is a good temp difference between the pellets and ground. I know the USFWS & WDFW use FLIR from aircraft to detect illegal fishing in the Columbia.

[Navigator53]

That's an idea Randy, maybe a generation 1 night vision scope or something on that order??

I have an infrared underwater camera that works in total darkness and I thought I could use it but found it doesn't work on a heat signature but rather it's own IF supply :(

Mel

[SomeSailor]

I worked on night vision equipment in the military. The biggest thing to get in mind is that there are two major types of "night vision" equipment. the one most think of are of the "Low level or "near infrared" variety. These are instruments that are capable of intensifying light in the "near infrared and low infrared" spectrum. Anything that you're paying less than ten grand for... operate ike these. They usually consist of image intensifier tubes that jack up the infrared spectrum. These are the same tecnology used in the "starlight scopes" of Viet nam vintage. The biggest thing about these types is they all rely on visible light, or infrared illumination from an IR source. they cannot truly see "heat".

When you cross over to true "infrared" devices (those can truly see in the dark), you're talking about the FLIR type systems used in aircraft and some handhelds. They are "thermal" viwers, and cannot actually "see" light at all. Most use super chilled intensifiers that operate well below ambient temps. They also cost a fortune. :)

To "see" heat... like that you're leaking in a house... you need the latter. The reference to Gen-1 through the so-called Gen-4 scopes (the DOD doesn't recognize a Gen 4 standard at all) are all just infrared light intensifiers.

They are pretty cool though. We repaired and calibrated them on the Lincoln. They are all AN/AVS-9 (ANVS9) units and are AMAZING toys. Can't see in complete darkness but they are pretty awesome gizmos. being one the senior guys in our department, I'd always have to sign for them when the pilots brought them in for repairs. I'd spend hours out on the weatherdecks watching the stuff you can see with them. VERY cool!
:)

[Navigator53]

Thanks Mike, great explanation :argh

I'm still exploring here.... is it possible to use a camera film of some kind to produce a thermal image, kind of a one shot thing and avoid the cost of real time images like the ones you explained?

Thank you

Mel

[SomeSailor]

I don't think so. All the film applications I've seen are designed around seeing in low light or low-infrared. Heat loss in a home is WAY down on the scale and usually requires specialized detectors and/or cooled intensifier tubes. Film would have to be able to detect down to wavelengths like 10 microns. That's just not possible.

I do know you can rent thermal imagers. Another possibility might be to use a thermal probe. Even the inexpensive one I got from Harbor Freight ($29.00 I think it was), can see where the 2x6's are in my walls on a cool day outside. Might be worth a try.

[bradvo]

Think I might just try what Mike said or look for a service to come out and check for you. My wife sells those expensive camera's- I think they start around 10 grand for the lower cost unit then up from there. I have tried using one on the boat for hot spots on wiring. GFI outlets show up best.

Back to the house I think if your adding insulation where needed and the small foam outlet insulaters plus caulking your doing about as good as anyone could hope for.
Brad

[Go Aweigh2452]

Contact your electric utility company. They may be able to either do an energy audit or recommend a company to do one for you.

It would be hard even if you had the right equipment to interpret the imaging and an auditor would know if leakage you see is good, acceptable, or fixable and make recommendations. We had our home in Maine done and the electric company did the audit with imaging equipment and since our home was all electric, they insulated our attic with an extra 12 inches for free. (Some kind of state initiative back then). When I saw the imaging, I could not tell if what I saw was good/bad/whatever... I got to remove some indoor casements around the window areas and the front door that they found and fill in the bad/poorly insulated areas.

All homes should have some transfer of air however. Indoor pollution is somewhat worse than outdoor without a good transfer of air...

[SomeSailor]

I have tried using one on the boat for hot spots on wiring. GFI outlets show up best.

The navy uses them now much the same way. Every power panel has a "tac" numbr associated with it and a 14-day inpection which includes exposing the buses and taking an infrared image of it. The kid has the images from previous inspections stored in hs imager, and when he aligns the newover the old, they can see loose or corroding buses that will cause heat and eventually problems down the road.

Cool technology.

[TollyWally]

I just picked up a gyppo laser thermometer gizmo at Harbor Freight for my boat heater repair project. You can probably use it to check for heat leaks etc. I was screwing around with today and was shooting all kinds of things around the boat. Engine, manifolds, cooling hoses, gears, coolers, etc.

Wally

[SomeSailor]

Pretty amazing how such a cheap tool can be so sensitive huh?

When the sun eventually comes back, it's fun to see where shadows and sunlight meet on a surface. There are usually MANY degrees difference. Fun to look at a glass of ice water. You could win a bet on most people over what the temperature of the ice is in your glass. :D

[Go Aweigh2452]

Just think how hot/cold you'd feel if you were on the moon half in shade and half in sunlight...

[SomeSailor]

Ask your kids what the temperature of an ice cube is Doug... I'd bet half don't know. I know 90% of adults don't. 8)

[Roel Jansen]

Be aware that if you don't have proper ventilation within half an hour you will be breathing very bad air. It's not easy to insulate an existing house. Some times the cure is worse than the ilness.

[coolchange]

I give up. What is the temp of an Ice cube?

Wouldnt it depend on the temp of the freezer it came out of? wouldnt it be colder inside (further away from the surface that touches the water) :shock:

[SomeSailor]

Most folks (me included) think (though) they'd be 32 degrees. Once you get to playing with this thermal probe you realize the ice cube itself may be several degrees below zero, and 32 degrees F on it's surface or on the surface around it.

I little thinking about it and it makes perfect sense, but it was a neat observation about my own reasoning skills. My first answer off the top of my head would have been 32 degrees. Same goes for boiling water. OUr minds are so set on 32F for freezing and 212F for boiling... we assume boiling water is 212 degrees.

I know... 8th grade science.. but it is the Gizmo section and the $30 IR probes are fun gizmos... especially if you get the laser pointer model :)

[TollyWally]

LOL,
I've been like a kid in Jr. high playing with my new laser probe. And they are amazingly useful for all sorts of things. I tracked down leaking walls through different drywall tempertures yesterday. Funny how a new tool you never used before becomes a "go to" technique.
Wally

[SomeSailor]

Yeah... they are a well-spent $30.00

On the boat they're awesome. You can actually watch the temps come up on various areas. If a person had just replaced risers, they could easily "benchmark" certain problem areas and use a paint pencil to mark the "ideal" temps while everything is virgin. Could you imagine the time it'd save a few years later?

Same goes for trailer axles. You can "see" which is running hotter and which are carrying more load.

Waterpipe insulation in the house is a good one to look at this time of year. Same way with window glass and jams. Fun little toy... err I mean tool. :D

[Navigator53]

I bought the radio shack IR thermometer and DO use it for the risers and manifolds, interesting how the temps. vary depending on where you point it, side to side and top to bottom etc.

Also, after driving a while, I also point it at the trailer axle bearing area, get a temp reading without dirty hands, handy gizmo :argh

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Got the NW natural gas bill today, after me and Jim Beam (I just couldn't do it sober) added 10 inches of insulation to the attic bringing it up to R38 , the useage only went down 0.4 therms/day with temps being on the average 1 degree colder for the billing period than last year.

It's a 1972 home, but sometimes we feel like we're trying to heat a barn :cry:

A good portion of the $192.70 for this months natural gas bill could be going toward boat fuel rather than just leaking out into the neighborhood..

Good suggestion on the energy audit and we did that and learned a lot about what is best for the area we live in, sealed and insulated the ducts and added insulation to the attice as they advised.

We have a plastic barrier over the single pane windows and there is about a 15 degree lower temp (with the probe) then the single panes.

Mel