Do Bayliner designers have any taste at all?

[Roel Jansen]

We finally were getting closer to which boat to buy. After a lot of considerations and looking at the pros and cons of a lot of boat brands,we were awaiting the arrival of the Bayliner Ciera 325, 2007 modelin the Showroom. And make our final decission. I was able to see the new boat earlier than the admiral and among some things I saw and absolutly didn't like, was the first imo idiot colour of the setps into the cabin. Almost white, and on t the upper step with the basket in it , it had a tiny little corner cut out? Ubelievable that they mounted that step. Second surprise was at the head. This boat came with the vacuflush toilet. Out of one side came a "nice"blue wire, I thought it to be the electricity wire. But wrong it was the fresh water supply hose. Everyother conection or plunbing of the head you can't see, as it comes from under the deck right into the head.Why this blue hose in a total white enviromont, couldn't be also made unseen and if not possible at least a white hose is used, puzzles me a lot. The door to the stern is locked by a "device" I really wonder where in the entire world they have found such a peace of crap. I was curious if the Admira would notice it and what she would say about it. But what could be expected happened the other day the Admirable, and a day later also friends made the same remarks. This is a boat of € 174 K. Yesterday evening the Admiral said is it really worth to trade in our Ciera 275in and pay € 100 K extra for this boat? Bayliner keep this going on and Bayliner bashing will never stop.

[Tedster]

Well pay a whole lot more for a better finished boat, or keep the one you have. Is there any thing else you needed? :shock:

[Roel Jansen]

No Ted,

I already have it. A very understanding sales guy over here at the Marina.

A guy who knows his job and is part of an organisation which realises that not every day people enter the showroom, in for a € K 174 boat to buy. They are people with a sound way of looking at the product the sell. They are aware of the importance of long term selling. They achieve it by keeping the customers satisfied and helping with solutions if they can. And solutions for them aren't buy a more expensive boat if you want a better one. He is also aware of the fact, as there is a rather big rise in prices the customers might expect to get a better product and not a worse. And Ted a lesson learned very young it's the customer who decides if the price quality is in balance and never the sales! Who pays decides. But I always thought you were such a guy too! :(

[bradvo]

I think your doing a logical thing here Roel, at least in my book.
I tend to look for the negative on big purchases over all the positive.
Seems normal to me anyway.
Then I decide whether to go forward or not after beating it up some.
Brad

[Tedster]

Roel my point was that you sounded like just another Bayliner basher. Don't get all sensitive! :D

[SomeSailor]

... you sounded like just another Bayliner basher. Don't get all sensitive! :D

I don't think it's about being all "sensitive" but it does look to be an example of a company that's listening less and less to customer feedback.

It's the little things people will notice... and it's the little things that will drive a customer to another vendor. Using a blue hose, may have saved BL a few cents, but a customer noticed it. He's now reconsidering because the price point possible drove someone to cut some corners.

Valid concerns, but the margins will continue tighten on luxury items, and those that survive will be the ones who have answers to small questions like that.

(maybe the blue hose is better? maybe the blue hose is color-coded? maybe the harware performed better during testing?)

[Tedster]

http://www.lakeunionsearay.com/searchengine/Details.aspx?diid=631326&bvdid=8760&type=ANB&indid=1&sortCol=Length&sortDir=DESC&page=2&

This best illustrates my point, here is the competions used 2004 32' boat with a price of $180K, when we are selling a brand new 32' boat for $40k less. Since they don't list their 2007 prices on the internet I couldn't even tell you what a brand new one would be, but I'm sure it is well over the $200K mark. :D

[heymagic]

Yabut...that's kind of like comparing a Chevy to a Buick, both made by GM but not the same product. Bayliner may view SeaRay as competition but obviously not the other way around. Roel wasn't fussing about the price as much as the design issues. White carpet isn't any cheaper than beige or brown or tangerine. The visable water hose could be re-designed, the problem with the steps and poor latching hardware may need to be addressed. Feedback from knowledable boat owners is more valuable than some kid out of college with a degree in CAD.

[SomeSailor]

Like a lot of US companies... I suspect they're not as open to entertain ideas from existing customers. When you're buying a Bayliner, it's a given that costs have been a consideration by design, but simple things like more utilitarian carpet colors and minor changes should at least be received well.

My personal peev is the trend towards moving to lessor powerplants. I think it's great if you want a smaller motor... but how hard would it be to make a larger plant available as an option. After a few years... if it doesn't pan out... THEN drop them as an option.

[Go Aweigh2452]

I think bayliner does listen to the customers... I know they monitor this and the other BL site because I exchange emails with one of the head guys at the US Marine home office. They do take us seriously... watch what changes have occured with new models in the past... they are constantly changing them to suit the public. Maybe not fast enough for some of us but they do change... Bottom line is they want to sell boats and therefore they have to listen or go broke.

As far as lesser power options... it is not Bayliner that is moving toward lesser power options. It's the dealers that order the boats.... For instance, the last carburated car was the 1998 Subaru I believe... but the BL dealers insist on ordering carbed engines vice Fuel injected... When the carbed models finally become too expensive when compared with the fuelies... watch the change... cause it is a bottom line issue for the dealer.

I have seen Olympic always tend toward the lower end of the power curve in all their boats. When I first wanted to buy my 2452 in 1996, I went to Olympic at the boat show and asked for the 5.7 only to be told I could not get it. I pushed the issue and the sale guy (Loren) was his name, called a few days later and asked if I was home... Lea said no and Loren insisted he talk to me... Lea said you will tell me... he then asked Lea if she was sitting down... she said, don't play games, just tell me... he said to get the upgraded engine from the 5.0 to the 5.7 (not the MAG MPI) would cost an additional $8,000 dollars (he dragged the $8,0000 dollars out real long)...

Bottom line, Bayliner has many engine options but some dealers decide what they want to sell. I was just in FL and went to the local BL dealer there. They don't push the 5.0 but outfit every 2452's with the 5.7 only... they also sell all their BL's with Blue hulls... (how many blue hulls have you seen in these parts?) Unfortunately, they had no 246's to look at yet...

[Roel Jansen]

I for sure think I am not a Bayliner basher. Actual there isn't hardly any Bayliner bashing over here. When we visited the Searay boats at the floating boatshow the new importer of SeaRay daid when we were in the 2700 it was I think, That hat boat didn't bring much compared with our 275. and that was for every body clear to see. But we went in a bigger one and were really impressed of what they had to offer. He also told us that he owned for some time a Bayliner 2855 and loved the boat. I am not a price buyer but I have to deal with a budget that I can spent out of the pocket. and I don't compare apples to pears as we say it here. But if you have seen the finish of this boat

http://www.jansmajacht.nl/bmb/images/35S/35sgalery/index.html

With the same type of engines but only from Volvo Penta and for € 25 K less.
That blue hose coming out of the blue even the most dedicated sales to the product he sells this simply cann't be done.

Why will we if we can agree about the trade in and the netto price to pay go for the 325 and not for the Bavaria 35 is that their cons they also have are very important for us.
What we don't like, the cons of the 35 sport so to speak, is the lack of windows, they only have some fish eye types . Makes the boat dark inside but that is also due to the second thing we don't like and that's the fact the real state room is behind a wooden wall with a door as the entrance so the interior darkens and the galley with the sittee looks very small .You loose about 7 feet when you look into the cabin. The 32 has a better lay out but technical speaking you can put a large window in that wall or cut a large piece out. I also am not a big Volvo fan. Prices for parts are absurd high if compared to Mercruiser, but if we can't get a deal with Bayliner we have a good alternative. Over here most boats are sold with the blue band. We ordered our 275 without it. We will probably order the first 325 without the blue band. :D

[bradvo]

That 35 you have in the link looks beautiful and also a higher quality then Searay. Love that teak decking. You say you can buy that boat cheaper then the bayliner 32 over there? My money would be on the bavarian 35.

[Go Aweigh2452]

But its a tunnel boat...

[bradvo]

I found on this style most all your time is spent on the sun deck . At least that was the case when we owned a 2855. Need a good canvas incase it gets chilly out.