Anhor rode and chain storage Blues

[Apperloo]

Thought i had lots of room on my 2655 for 300' of 1/2"rode and 100' of 1/4"chain. Apparently not. Restowing line and knocking down chain while retrieving the anchor is a major pia. Running down to to the hole and hoping your not beaching in the process sucks:::eek:
Has anyone moved the locker bulkhead aft to make a little more room? Has it helped?
Is there another way to automate this proccess? THX

[Nehalennia]

Thought i had lots of room on my 2655 for 300' of 1/2"rode and 100' of 1/4"chain. Apparently not. Restowing line and knocking down chain while retrieving the anchor is a major pia. Running down to to the hole and hoping your not beaching in the process sucks:::eek:
Has anyone moved the locker bulkhead aft to make a little more room? Has it helped?
Is there another way to automate this proccess? THX

Man that's a lot of Rode. I'm setting mine up here this week, but I'm not sure 400' feet is needed. Are you really thinking of anchoring so deep? I know when we're in BC it's extremely deep, but I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable anchoring deeper than 60-80 feet.

[Apperloo]

428' It sure seems like it to me as well. Fills the locker for sure.
So far i have only been anchoring in the lake at 30 feet or so max
I have been following some of the recommendations on the forum, so when ordering chain i picked 100' for weight and holding. Like to sleep well.
The 3 strand comes on a roll of 328'. not that I mind cutting it, but i have read here ratios of 4 :1 right up to 7 :1 of scope, which seems like a lot to me, but I'm a newbie so i would like to be sure.
At 7:1 and 420' total, thats a 60' depth. and about a 300' swing. Don't anchor anywhere me based on those numbers.
I would like to hear the real story.

[SomeSailor]

You might consider breaking your rode into shots (15 fathoms or 90') and stowing these extra shots in your bilge somewhere.

I have 200' of line and 75' of warp, with a total of 275' of scope. I'm gonna keep two separate shots and a backup anchor in the bilge in case I ever have to cut away or loose an anchor.

[Go Aweigh2452]

I'm gonna keep two separate shots and a backup anchor in the bilge in case I ever have to cut away or loose an anchor.

I'm planning on moving my second anchor to the most forward hatch under the berth. I have the rode on an electrical cord holder...

http://205.196.138.20/3%5C16/161c3438-9e9d-4a2d-8584-94f8fe348d06_3.jpg

I then have the reel wrapped with blue painters tape to secure the rode from unwinding. I only have 150 ft of line and 20 ft of chain and a 15# danforth.

[SomeSailor]

I was thinking about the bilge only on the premise that if I wake up not where I went to sleep... I could toss that 2nd anchor and worry about the bow later. :D

[Apperloo]

I only have 150 ft of line and 20 ft of chain and a 15# danforth.

This 150 + 20 is your main anchor?
Are you just a marina guy, ..............or do you prefer to find a quiet cove for yourself?

[SomeSailor]

If you figured 40 foot of water and 5 foot to the roller, even a 5:1 scope would call for 225'

Most I've talked to recommend a scope of 5:1 to 7:1 and chain equaling 1-2 times the length of the boat. So, on a 24 footer, you'd want 50' of chain and another 175' or so of warp. That's just for the 5:1 scope. You'd need 265 feet of rope to come up to a 7:1 recommendation.

[3788sam]

All this talk about spares, and I just remembered that my spare anchor, line and chain are still at my house. Lot of good that will me there :roll:

[Go Aweigh2452]

This 150 + 20 is your main anchor?
Are you just a marina guy, ..............or do you prefer to find a quiet cove for yourself?

That is my spare anchor. My main anchor on the bow is a 10kg bruce type with ~25 ft of chain and 250 ft of line. That replaced a 7.5kg galvanized bruce that I gave to another IBoatNW boater last week. I don't think a 7.5kg is adequate for my size boat so I got the new one, but I also went stainless so mud will slip off.

I also carry 400ft of polypropylene for stern ties to eyes in the rocks at CA marine parks...

AND I have a "3788sam" danforth anchor & rode... in the garage :rolleyes:

I like either on the hook or at the dock... what ever is available... In Canada, I like the hook best.

[Apperloo]

If you figured 40 foot of water and 5 foot to the roller, even a 5:1 scope would call for 225'

Most I've talked to recommend a scope of 5:1 to 7:1 and chain equaling 1-2 times the length of the boat. So, on a 24 footer, you'd want 50' of chain and another 175' or so of warp. That's just for the 5:1 scope. You'd need 265 feet of rope to come up to a 7:1 recommendation.

And thats only 40' of depth.....and 60'would be...Thats what i'm getting at.
Is it possible you do not need quite as high a ratio dependent on depth?
I would really like to know how much everyone is getting away with, without overdoing it and still stable.

[SomeSailor]

Scope is all about catenary angles. But there are limitations to that too. if you're at an anchorage with other boats around you, it's not very practical to think you're gonna pay out 450' of warp, just to get the best angle. That'd give you a swing circle of nearly a quarter mile. :)

[Nehalennia]

OK what size chain are you guys using?

5/16"?

[SomeSailor]

1/4" Grade 4 (HT). Windlasses are pretty particular on chain size. The Lewmar 700 uses 1/4" G4 and 1/2"-5/8" line.

[Nehalennia]

1/4" Grade 4 (HT). Windlasses are pretty particular on chain size. The Lewmar 700 uses 1/4" G4 and 1/2"-5/8" line.

Ok, so what's the difference between G4 and BBB? By what I've seen, simply slight dimensions....what else

316 Anchor chain (http://www.1st-chainsupply.com/chain/stainlessus/38-336US.html)

[SomeSailor]

The diameter of the links and the shape make the difference.

G4 is slightly smaller and BBB will munch a capstan in short order. :)

[Nehalennia]

The diameter of the links and the shape make the difference.

G4 is slightly smaller and BBB will munch a capstan in short order. :)

That's what I was seeing. Looks like G4 is the Windlass chain. I don't have a windlass, but may next year so I want to get what I may need.

Looks like Galvy's in my near future. 316 G4 is $7 + a foot on the cheap end of what I found + weaker than Galvy

[SomeSailor]

Yeah... get G4 if you're thinking of a windlass later. I had to buy new G4 even though my BBB chain was in great shape. :(

[Nehalennia]

Anyone stow the rode(or warp I guess as Mike's Calling it) in a bag in the locker?

[Apperloo]

Because I use a V700 windlass and do not really want to cut the rope(u never know:|), i have decided to first try to divide off the upper portion of the locker and stow a few hundred feet up there in a nice coil. If its called for, it will automatically feed out. Hopefully it will leave the extra room i need for the balance. Thanks for the input.
Would still like to know the average ratio everyone thinks they use?

[Go Aweigh2452]

Would still like to know the average ratio everyone thinks they use?

I also have the V700 and depending on the area, my scope could be as little as 2 or 3 to 1. This is normally if we stop on the hook for lunch or just hanging out for a while and the seas/current are not rushing. I also have my GPS set on anchor watch just in case I miss the dragging. But so far, have not had a problem...

[Apperloo]

Right On. Now we are getting somewhere.
I have been at about the same ratio at the lakes, even with a good wind. If the set is good...............all is good.
From the ratio's i was reading about, the salt was scaring the s%&t out of me.

[SomeSailor]

yeah... the 5:1 rule isn't set in stone anywhere.

It's just hard learned lessons through the years. Heavier is better, chain is better... longer is better... :D

[Nehalennia]

I haven't done the research on windlasses yet, but thought I'd ask.
Does 3/8" G4 work on a windlass later, or are they size specific?

[sunnydude2]

The windlasses specify what chain they need on the gypsy. This held true for my Muir. We had to get 5/16" BBB but were able to get 5/16" BBB G43 chain for $2.75' with no tax or delivery via a guy on ebay.

[SomeSailor]

Most (all Lewmar) windlasses I've found use only G4 chain. Matter of fact, most places only refer to G4 (G40) as "windlass chain".

It's a smaller link than BBB and your capstain will last longer. I was told BBB would work, but will eventually cause wear of the gypsy's teeth.

[sunnydude2]

Maybe they are changing the designs? Is the G4 the ISO spec? From the Muir chart on chain and rope size it says, "...designed to fit short link chain only;BBB, ISO spec, etc. to maximize the number of pockets and gripping..."

I think the most important thing is to follow what the gypsy says.

[SomeSailor]

Maybe they are changing the designs? Is the G4 the ISO spec? From the Muir chart on chain and rope size it says, "...designed to fit short link chain only;BBB, ISO spec, etc. to maximize the number of pockets and gripping..."

I think the most important thing is to follow what the gypsy says.

There's a marked difference between them. I tried mine with the old chain, and with only my body weight, I was able to get it to slip using BBB galvanized. If I put the weight on and then rattled it around it would slip a tooth every few times. The chain is cheap compared to the cost of the windlass.

When talking about grades, being more specific is probably better. G4 (more correctly G40) is "windlass chain". G4 is stamped on every link and is a "short link" chain. It is high tensile, and BBB is low tensile general purpose chain.

If you think you might be buying a windlass later, I'd be buying G4 once and getting it over with.

[Nehalennia]

Ok, but will those Windlasses compatible with G4(G40) also work in any of the G4 sizes(1/4", 5/16" and 3/8")

[SomeSailor]

Nope. The Lewmar 700 uses 1/4" chain... the 1000 uses 5/16".

You'll be in the 700 size I'd imagine. (You'll never need to lift more that 700 pounds I'd guess?)

Just buy G4 chain with your new ground tackle and you'll be all set to add a windlass to your Christmas list. :)

Also remember that the windlass won't like splices, so get what you might want now. (same goes for rope, but the gypsy can jump over spices in rope)

[Go Aweigh2452]

Also remember that the windlass won't like splices, so get what you might want now. (same goes for rope, but the gypsy can jump over spices in rope)

Well, I seem to have a good splice on the chain to the rope. Have not had any problems.... yet... She even locks onto the pulpit the first time too.

[Nehalennia]

I'm going to check out what I've got. 1/4" sounds good

[Nehalennia]

The Tech working on my boat, has the exact same boat I do. He just installed a windlass on his. He said he wasn't sure how to braid the chain to the line so he bought new chain and line. Anyway he said he needed to get rid of it and I wanted he he'd give it to me.

I said sure. So I have about 50' or so of chain and what looks like at least 100' of line. + a 13# Danforth. I figured someone here (Erik, it's not heavier than your 16#r) would want it as there spare or just needs the anchor.

I'll sort through what I have now and see what's left for anyone that needs some Anchor gear it's yours.

[SomeSailor]

Well, I seem to have a good splice on the chain to the rope. Have not had any problems.... yet... She even locks onto the pulpit the first time too.

I was talking about the chain. There's no good clean way to splice the chain if you wanna add length.

The chain splice (rope to chain) is no problem.

I bought 80' of 2/0 cable today to get all the wiring to the windlass and inverter hopefully this weekend. I've got all the panels away from the side of the hull and now just need to get busy with the cabling. My neighbor hooked me up on the cable. $2.05/ft (his cost). The same cable at Harbor marine was $5.35/ft. :D

I'm overdoing it, but and doing the 2/0 from bow to stern and then buss bars at three places in between. Planning ahead for a nice inverter install later.

[Nehalennia]

I was talking about the chain. There's no good clean way to splice the chain if you wanna add length.

The chain splice (rope to chain) is no problem.

I bought 80' of 2/0 cable today to get all the wiring to the windlass and inverter hopefully this weekend. I've got all the panels away from the side of the hull and now just need to get busy with the cabling. My neighbor hooked me up on the cable. $2.05/ft (his cost). The same cable at Harbor marine was $5.35/ft. :D

I'm overdoing it, but and doing the 2/0 from bow to stern and then buss bars at three places in between. Planning ahead for a nice inverter install later.

2/0? wow, that should be stout enough. Will the boat list to that side?:cool:

The tech I was speaking about installed a windlass and I asked him his route, and he said it wasn't bad at all so that's a project for next year(as well as maybe an inverter~we'll see).

[SomeSailor]

Well, the reasoning isn't to support heavy amperage so much as voltage drop. I'm going to run 2/0 up from the engine compartment along the starboard side. Make a drop at a buss bar just below the helm and then head forward to bow. I'll probably add another tie point at the AC panel for a DC breaker panel and then finish at the windlass. It's much more cable needed than the windlass alone will call for, but I don't want my Radar or GPS resetting every time the windlass is operated, and I have the same size cable in my truck for the inverter there.

The cable is cheap enough, might as well do it right.

[Nehalennia]

Well, the reasoning isn't to support heavy amperage so much as voltage drop. I'm going to run 2/0 up from the engine compartment along the starboard side. Make a drop at a buss bar just below the helm and then head forward to bow. I'll probably add another tie point at the AC panel for a DC breaker panel and then finish at the windlass. It's much more cable needed than the windlass alone will call for, but I don't want my Radar or GPS resetting every time the windlass is operated, and I have the same size cable in my truck for the inverter there.

The cable is cheap enough, might as well do it right.

I agree with that, you only want to do it once.

[Apperloo]

Well, I have re-stowed most of the rope and coiled it in the upper portion of the locker, available if i need it..... and the chain still piles up like a termite hill. Its only a 100', sheesh
Its picken' me that i still need to go down and knock the chain down. There must be a solution..........

[SomeSailor]

Its picken' me that i still need to go down and knock the chain down. There must be a solution..........

Why do you have to knock it down. I haven't looked at mine since I installed it. My experience (really limited) is that it doesn't tangle easily and as the windlass lifts it to pay it out, it sorts any kinks it may have out.

It's only been down a dozen times or so, but each time it's gone out and back in without incident.

[Apperloo]

I installed the winch (a vertical unit. V700) as far back as possible, the deepest part of the locker. Have not put a tape to it, but its around 16" or so. When reeling in the chain will stack, literally stack straight up and load about 40' or so before topping out and jamming the winch.
The next run after knocking the chain down is about 30, then 20 etc till the anchor is up.
Which winch do you have?

[SomeSailor]

I have a Lewmar HT700. It's horizontal and my anchor locker is really deep. I could have gotten a vertical in there, but I was worried about just that.

That explains it. You might be able to install a slide plate the would cause it to lay down better?

[Apperloo]

Crappy........
Picked up the vertical cuz' I like the sleekness of it
Anything I put down in there to divert the chain, will cause me issues dropping anchor I am sure.
No win

[SomeSailor]

I've heard of some putting an triangular piece in that tips the stack of chain over. It just has to have an angle that won't hang coming up either. I could easily put another pile of chain in mine. There's lots of room in a 2859 anchor locker.

[Dos Monitos]

I understand why you want that much chain, but with that much trouble it just may be too much of a good thing. Have you considered reducing your chain and keeping a sentinel/ kellet anchor for when you need to increase your scope? Here is one that looks like it would work great and be very easy to deploy. http://www.anchorbuddy.co.nz/allchain.html
Has any one had any experience with this type of sentinel?

[Go Aweigh2452]

Interesting... Never saw this kind of system... I bought a bigger anchor just so I could have more weight out there. The last thing I want to do however is to climb up the bow and place more weight on the line. It kind of defeats the purpose of a windlass somewhat I think?

[SomeSailor]

They're designed to augment in heavy seas or when your standard anchor is light. They act just like having more scope. They weight down the chain and keep it on the bottom.

You can still use your windlass to lift it.

[Go Aweigh2452]

You can still use your windlass to lift it.

But who wants to go on the bow to attach and detach it when you have a windlass? I understand the concept but don't think it is needed in most situations... at least I don't think it is a good deal for us... :rolleyes:

[Dos Monitos]

But who wants to go on the bow to attach and detach it when you have a windlass? I understand the concept but don't think it is needed in most situations...

... and I agree. How ever when you need a greater scope it may be easier to pull this out and deploy then to have a constant battle with knocking down chain EVERY TIME (just so you'll have enough rode to have a greater scope the few times you may need it). That's where I'm coming from.

I don't have an "Anchor Buddy" I just like the concept. I have a 15 lbs mushroom anchor attached to a SS shackle and 100' of 1/2" anchor line. It all stows easy and if I need more scope then I have rode then I send it down the line.

[SomeSailor]

But who wants to go on the bow to attach and detach it when you have a windlass? I understand the concept but don't think it is needed in most situations... at least I don't think it is a good deal for us... :rolleyes:

You have to go out there anyhow. It's only for those occasions when the scope you have isn't enough. I have 75' of chain and 225' or so of rope. I can see where it'd be nice if you couldn't keep the curve down on a windy moorage.