Canada [Archive] - I Boat North West

bradvo

06-14-2005, 08:04 AM

Spud, you talking about the Roche harbor check in? There is one guy there that is a royal A-hole. We have delt with him in past times. I do need to get my passport at some time to make it easier for myself. I will have to show up with my change of name and a birth certificate that also has been changed-all legal, I will just tell him I am in the witness protection program. :D I guess my wife will have to have her birth certificate and the marriage license.
But I do have a bad feeling that he is going to rip me anyway, maybe I will go to Friday Harbor and eat my beef on the way.
Actually , I think I will take all this with me and see customs while I am up there at the end of month to see what or if I can make things smoother for us .
As much crap as it seems it has been pretty loose at border crossings by boat- I just kinda wish they would take a better look at the history of the individual and see that since you have the same address and boat back and forth as a vacationer and pleasure boaters do that you are probably safe -and you are who you say you are.
Oh well, most certainly a different world we live in.

SomeSailor

06-14-2005, 08:12 AM

I turned in my Government Passport when I retired... I show a military ID and a smile...

Never had a problem.

I still think that's a bit of a hollow threat. There is no law against a US citizen leaving the country without a passport and for him to say "he'll fine ya $250", well I think he's trying to scare ya into making his job easier.

I do agree they don't have to let you in though... but it takes only minutes to validate a person online. What do you think those plate readers and cameras are doing as you drive up at the crossings :)

I was reading in one of the government security rags I get that the next step is a probability profile they run.

You'll answer silly questions like:

- phone number?
- mothers maiden name?
- high school graduated? year?
- seattle baseball team?
- own or rent? bought what year?
- how many cars in your name?
- how many kids on youyr taxes last year?
- library card? if yes, where?
- phone company name?
- military service?

... etc (the list can get long)

and by doing so, they develop a "probabilty" that you are who you are. Some of things are so vague and random... but in combination are VERY unique to the person being questioned. If the score goes lower... then they ask more... once you get to a certain score... "Thanks... enjoy your visit..."

Ahkmed isn't gonna know what some of those things even are... much less how to answer them all...

They're already doing similar checks on pilots boarding their planes. They have a voluntary program where a pilot picks a group of familiar questions to be added to his record. At any time they can ask one or many to validate a picture ID.

3788sam

06-14-2005, 08:23 AM

That plate reader at the boarder brings up everything when you pull up to the booth.(as long as it has been read previously)
I'm a landed immigrant in Canada and they have my whole life story from my application including I'm a member on the NRA and have a CPL.
So the questions about if I'm bring in any weapons or ammo in to Canada goes on for about 2 minutes before I get the welcome back.

Seapuppy

06-14-2005, 08:26 AM

akmed really gets puzzled when they ask "what size towel on your head"....bath or hand??...that gets them every time!!!
:lol: :argh arrr

SomeSailor

06-14-2005, 08:30 AM

A National ID card system, with PKI and rolling authentication would solve the whole problem too.

It's a shame that Americans are so scared of their privacy being violated by "Big Brother" that it's gonna be awhile before it comes to fruition, but its a sure-fire solution.

My last active-duty MilID had a 256K chip onboard that carried my DNA profile, fingerprint, all my DEERs info, military PKI and private web PIN numbers. It was awesome. No logins on PCs... just slide my ID into the keyboard and run my finger across the pad to get message traffic.

I actually liked dooing it because I knew that only in a country like this could we have this technology so readily available. Beat Ahkmed at what WE do best for a change.

Randygh

06-14-2005, 09:14 AM

Two summers ago we went through customs at Roche. My wife, daughter and daughter's boyfriend. We all had birth certs, photo ID, boat registration. Ms. US Customs was as friendly as a turnup. Fortunately there were quite a few boats waiting so she didn't do a vessel inspection. Being a reserve police officer at the time, I thought her attitude was p_ss poor. If a bad guy flunks the attitude test, then its ok to be assertive, but to be a jerk to friendly folks that pay your salary is BS.

bradvo

06-14-2005, 09:28 AM

2 years ago we made a stupid mistake. A friend of ours from Texas jumped onto another friends boat to ride with them to Roche harbor from Canada, wanted to see how his boat ran. I think we were coming over from Sydney- Not good, the boat that left into Canada had two people and came back with 3. We showed up on our boat about an hour later, with his wife on board who also had his wallet. What a beating he took.

Pegasis

06-14-2005, 09:29 AM

So what happens when you cross the border with a personnalized plate that had been surrendered by someone who no longer wanted it, or you've changed the vehicle it's on?

Go Aweigh2452

06-14-2005, 09:40 AM

Well, I think we can make this a lot easier by taking all documentation (passport, birth certificates, etc.) into your drivers license office, they certify that you are a citizen and fill in a mark on you drivers license to that fact. This then makes your drivers license a valid ID. If the certification block is not checked, then it is NOT valid for proof of citizenship. You can even go one step further and make the certified drivers license a different color so even the border dudes can see the difference... chipping would also be an option... just me two cents and it would save a hell of alot of money in getting your passports and having to carry them on a boat and then remember to take them in your car when you cross the border, etc... I hate government red tape... and the cost... just boggles my mind we cannot do this stuff easier!!!! :evil:

3788sam

06-14-2005, 09:41 AM

The registration system will show that it belongs to you now and any data associated with you will apply to your new plate.
I've spent so much time at the Peace Arch crossing office that I have seen how much data comes up on their screens (Never close enough to read it though)

Go Aweigh2452

06-14-2005, 09:49 AM

When I flew back form Japan last year, US customs agent had the supervisor come over and asked me a ton of questions about where in the US I lived my entire life. Being military, the list went on for some time... I had listed 19 different addresses during just my military career and 4 during my civie days. When I was done, they asked if I ever lived in Georgia. I said no and they then said, have a nice day... I still have no idea what they were looking for???

3788sam

06-14-2005, 10:05 AM

Here on I know about - I was coming back into the US at the truck crossing. I have a couple of bank accounts in Canada and while I was up there I transfered a large sum in to investment account. When I got to the boarder crossing I was asked how much money I was bring back in to the US- Told him none - Tells me to go into the office. Get in there and the knew that I had made a with drawl the day before and asked where the money was now. Had to have the broker fax a receipt to the customs office since mine was in a safety deposit box in Canada or they were going to search the car!

SomeSailor

06-14-2005, 10:28 AM

So what happens when you cross the border with a personnalized plate that had been surrendered by someone who no longer wanted it, or you've changed the vehicle it's on?

Easy. If it's registered to you it will come up just like a standard plate. Their system reads the plate as it comes up. It's already gotten background information on the vehicle and it's owner before you even pull into the lane.

He/She is reading a script right off the screen when they do their interview.

Figure the odds on a terrorist getting hold of MY Military ID, knowing that I was born in Texas, have a boat registered in Washington and lived in California... on Fogg St. previous to this address with starts with 2507.

It's a pretty simple concept that "scores" a persons responses to otherwise pretty simple questions that are all a matter of public record. My daughter worked for a company called InQuest that does just that for employment applications. They have an algorithm that "scores" an applicants responses on an application. Employers use that to determine if they should bother any further with the hiring process.

Very "Big Brotherish" ... but very effective as well.

3688DB

06-14-2005, 01:53 PM

Well, not sure why they told you it was not in place in the PNW.
Last Thursday four of us Canadians left for the Rendezvous at Roche with our Nexus cards in hand. Before even leaving the dock, we phoned US Customs and Immigration at the "old" number we had used previously with the PIN system. (The Captain had called this number earlier in the week to confirm that the Nexus cards were now required as opposed to the PIN system).
After a short description of each passenger by name and Nexus number, destination and duration of stay, we were given a clearance number.
Totally painless and as easy as it was with the PIN system.

I would look into it further. I recall seeing an article a mnth or two back in Northwest Yacting stating the new process would be in place.

Roel Jansen

06-14-2005, 09:30 PM

Actually we never had any problems but once to get into the US. We fill in two forms a green and white one with simple questions in the plane and hand them over to the immigration officer. Once I was sent to the immigration office and the nice female there told me that officialyI was still in the US but she could see with here own eyes that I wasn't .
we were joking about it and she said wait I will take care of itand took my passport went to another PC a couple of minuts later she was back and said I fixed it so you won't have this trouble any more. The problem was that a part of the green form stays in the passport and is taken in at the airport when leaving and that wasn't done. Back here in Europe we don't have any controles left when traveling inside the EU. Only the outside borders of the EU are controlled.

Entering into Switserland is a different story I think they don't have invented the word humor yet ! :evil:

SomeSailor

06-15-2005, 05:30 AM

So... once you're inside the European Union... you travel without border checks entirely. Your only concern is from terrorists outside the EU?

It sounds as though only Switzerland is holding its own sovereignty. Is your military and police force working as one in the EU?

Go Aweigh2452

06-15-2005, 06:03 AM

actually, I think they are trying to emulate the US and make going from country to country as easy as going from state to state (with the exception of Georgia aka (Switzerland)) and your car has NY plates... :roll:

SomeSailor

06-15-2005, 07:43 AM

I see the EU Constitution has run across some "snags".

SPUD

06-15-2005, 08:52 AM

Doug,

Maybe the Nexus cards work for Canadians. I just called up there again and they said the Marine Nexus Program is now only a test program for the Great Lakes. Anyway, they already shredded my applications.

They said I could reapply for the vehicle Nexus program.

Whatever !

Nelson

lee

06-15-2005, 08:57 AM

If you travel to Canada quite a bit you can get an I 68 trusted traveler clearance. It requires a personal interview, payment of a fee ($16 individual $32 family), proof of citizenship, 3 valid passport photos, vessel certificate of documentation and a customs and border protection user fee #. Contact them at 206.553.0667

SPUD

06-15-2005, 12:21 PM

I thought about the I68 but it takes an interview appointment for every family member along with a fingerprint appointment in downtown Seattle.

Hassle factor = Way too high

Thanks for the idea though.......maybe someone wants to go through it .

Spud

3788sam

06-15-2005, 12:29 PM

Hate to break the topic, But Spud do you know Brent Samodurov?

SomeSailor

06-15-2005, 12:47 PM

... and is he gonna be fishing with us this weekend on the Bubble? :D

SPUD

06-15-2005, 01:40 PM

Ken,

I don't recall Brents name....why do you ask ?

Mike,

I am still thinking of hitting the bubble early Friday. I will let you know tomorrow. It's been really slow I have heard and the weather might be crummy. But as the bubble is not in Canadian waters (staying on topic),
I still might give it an early morning tryout.

Spud

Tedster

06-15-2005, 01:55 PM

I'll wave as I go by you on my way to Oak Harbor (Canada :))! Ted :D

3788sam

06-15-2005, 02:17 PM

Spud, I was in a meeting with Brent today he mentioned a friend in Woodinville who goes was in China for business and I thought I should ask, so checking :D

SPUD

06-15-2005, 02:47 PM

Ken.......must be someone else.......

Ted, we plan on heading up to Oak Harbor around noon. It is a 15 minute run from Everett. Where is the Customs Dock there for check in? :D

Nelson

Tedster

06-15-2005, 04:27 PM

Cute, I think it is right next to my Crown! Ted :D

SomeSailor

06-15-2005, 05:04 PM

Ken,

I will let you know tomorrow. It's been really slow I have heard and the weather might be crummy. But as the bubble is not in Canadian waters (staying on topic),
I still might give it an early morning tryout.

Spud

Sounds good. Say when & where.

Roel Jansen

06-16-2005, 09:07 PM

Mike and Doug,

No we don't have an European army. We contribute in NATOand have Interpol for the Police cooperation . Every country has it's own anti terror programs. Like Doug says we now can travel as easy as you can from state to state travel from country to country. Recently France and the Netherlands had a referendum about a kind of treaty that was wrongly named an European constituion. It was with a big majority rejected by the French and Dutch people. At the moment we have also other problems about the financial contribution of each EU member. Especially our Government is against the present contributions of the Nations.
We as a small country with 16 million inhabitants pays pay 3 times as much per inhabitant than all the other countries but also in real money we are second after Germany. so before Brittain, France, Italy, Spain and all the rest! And we get the least financial benefits out of the EU financial Funds. Yesterday there was an important EU meeting and I don't know the final outcome yet. But we are the major player in Europe now. If our Government stays firm at their point that we demand a tremendous cut in our payment the EU has severe problems! But the soup isn't eaten as hot as it's served. :D

Go Aweigh2452

06-17-2005, 05:36 AM

aahhh yes, socialism at its finest... I see the growth rate of EU nations is forecast to be just under 1 %? Doesn't sound too promising...

We as a small country with 16 million inhabitants pays pay 3 times as much per inhabitant

Socialism is an ideology with the core belief that a society should exist in which popular collectives control the means of power, and therefore the means of production. In application, however, the de facto meaning of socialism has evolved and branched to a great degree, and though highly politicized, is strongly related to the establishment of an organized working class, created through either revolution or social evolution, with the purpose of building a "classless society". It has also, increasingly, become concentrated on social reforms within modern democracies.
In modern socialist theory, it is in the pursuit of the goal of creating a democratic society that would form the backbone of an ideal welfare state.

I would imagine that the EU would welcome the fact that you pay 3 times more so that everyone has their fair share in the end. How else can you get to that "classless society" without some giving up more that can afford it so that others that cannot afford to give, get to the same economic plane?

I see Europe, which should be a world class economic powerhouse, failing in this socialistic experiment within the next 20 years. This will be mainly due to the underlying fact that humans thrive on competition and most will not want to settle for mediocrity... I mean "mediocracy" or "socialocracy" (both non-words but in the future may become words to describe the EU experiment).

Many of those 75 million new/recently added Euro citizens are existing on average incomes of no more than $450 a month, yet will have an expectation of the same kinds of economic and social rights that those in France, Germany, Netherlands and Britain take for granted. They will also find themselves bound by tens of thousands of EU directives, such as rules on food preparation and hygiene in restaurants, which will be impossibly expensive to implement without help.

Face it, Europe or more to the point, the EU, has been sold a bag of goods and no one knows what is inside that bag for them. But everyone has been told it is good for them.

I think even with all our faults, America has it more correct.

Randygh

06-17-2005, 07:39 AM

Roel--Thanks for the informative post about the EU. I can fully understand why your country's citizens are opposed to subsidizing lesser productive countries. Kinda like the US and the UN. The UN would crumble or be emasculated if the US withdrew or greatly reduced its funding. Hey, what a great idea!

SomeSailor

06-17-2005, 12:49 PM

Thanks Roel.

I always like hearing from you about these things. It keeps things in perspective. We're so removed from it we only hear small bits of news and the reality of it gets clouded at times.

I dislike the idea of large groupings of countries... much like the Soviet Union. I would feel the same way if the Americas wanted to form an "American Union".

There is just no way to proportionately distribute the wealth.

Dawn Dreamer

06-17-2005, 01:15 PM

That sounds strange to me. As far as I am aware there have been no changes to the status of the Nexus Card. I have done a rather exhaustive search and can find no announcements of change.

Just got a call that the Nexus waterway pass is no good in the Pacific Northwest (Only Great Lakes). The nice lady asked if she could shred all my applications.

OH WELL ! I TRIED !

SPUD

SomeSailor

06-17-2005, 02:10 PM

Hi Michael; Welcome to IBNW.

Maybe it's because SPUD insists on clearing customs at 50MPH :)

Roel Jansen

06-17-2005, 09:18 PM

Michael,

Welcome!

Woke up early this morning because our cat wanted attention and be pampered at 5 oclock. :twisted:
After patting her still halve a sleep I went out of bed to fetch some diet cokes to flush the remains of some bottles of nice South African wine and a couple of glasses Martell, my favorite's, I started to read all about the Lady Jane. Very pleasant reading for some one who from his early youth, when there was only 70 km's of autoroute in the Lyon region, spend most of his Holidays in France. Just finished reading at 7 a.m. Nice boat!. Nice travels.

From the country where you boat is built, have a nice weekend,

SomeSailor

06-18-2005, 05:32 AM

Very nice website for your boat there Michael. Very informative and well laid out. Worth checking out and a good read.

I especially liked all the pictures :)

Go Aweigh2452

06-18-2005, 07:42 AM

Michael and Memory, welcome to the jungle. Nice website, very well done and very informative. We look forward to meeting you in person and sharing a beer or cocktail to two...

Dawn Dreamer

06-18-2005, 09:14 AM

Roel,
Thank you for your kind comments. I also spent many pleasant times in France, beginning in the mid sixties and then multiple annual trips from the early eighties onward. Many changes, and for the nostalgic, not always for the best.... mais, c'est la vie.

Michael,
Welcome!
<Snip> ... when there was only 70 km's of autoroute in the Lyon region, spend most of his Holidays in France.<Snip>

Dawn Dreamer

06-18-2005, 09:34 AM

Doug,
Thank you for your kind words. Once the dust settles from my auction in Toronto next week, we plan on spending much of July, August and September boating, so we'll be around.

<Snip> We look forward to meeting you in person and sharing a beer or cocktail to two...

SomeSailor

06-18-2005, 10:06 AM

That's a very interesting profession you're in Michael. I'm certainly glad you found your way over. My father was an avid coin collector, and as a kid I remember going through he various collection books. Mostly just common coins, but my mom still has some of the proof sets (that got separated in their divorce). :)

Is the coin collecting hobby (wrong word for it?) diminishing as the years go by, or it just moving to the more rare items?

Dawn Dreamer

06-18-2005, 11:19 AM

With so many distractions, there are fewer young people involved these days, as compared to the fifties and sixties. In those days you could find rarities in change, but with the withdrawal of silver from circulation in the mid-to-late-sixties, there was less and less to find, and thrill of the hunt was soon became the only reward. The number of collectors dwindled to the very serious ones.

Today, with four decades of "new" coinage to search through, and the large variety of circulating change that was initiated by the Canada 125 in 1992 and continued by the State Quarter program, there is a strong renewal of interest. Added to this are all the "boys" who collected in the fifties and sixties who are now rekindling their old interest with great earnest and amazingly deep pockets. Much of this is now spurred-on by the recent scams and sleeze in the equities market; collectibles of all kinds are becoming a much more popular parking place for loose cash.

<Snip>Is the coin collecting hobby (wrong word for it?) diminishing as the years go by, or it just moving to the more rare items?

Dawn Dreamer

06-18-2005, 04:43 PM

I just called up there again and they said the Marine Nexus Program is now only a test program for the Great Lakes.

That may be the problem; you are applying for the Marine Nexus Program: "This pilot project will be implemented in the Detroit/Windsor area along the Detroit River (from the mouth of Lake St. Clair to the mouth of Lake Erie from May to September 2005)."

Ignore the Marine and apply for the regular Nexus card. It works in the PNW - look at: http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/newsroom/fact_sheets/fact_sheet_boaters.xml

"The NEXUS Alternative Inspection Program allows pre-screened, low-risk travelers to be processed with little or no delay by U.S. and Canadian border officials. Approved applicants are issued a photo-identification/proximity card, which is valid for 5 years. Participants cross the border in a dedicated lane where they present their membership identification and proximity card for expedited processing unless selected for a more intensive examination. Small boat operators in possession of a NEXUS member card may report arrival via phone."

SomeSailor

06-18-2005, 05:30 PM

There ya go...

Just apply as a Nexus member as if you were gonna be driving across and then report as you cross?

Go Aweigh2452

06-19-2005, 07:05 AM

well, I think I'll stick to the slow lane, not repel borders and just carry my passport, birth certificate, and my first born in case I have to leave him as proof of citizenship... This is sooo stupid... If I enroll, I have to go to Blaine for the interview (when THEY have it scheduled)... 200 mile trip each way and pay $50 per NEXUS interview... no one can answer if I can schedule both the Admiral AND me at the same time... this is soooo...

At least they now have Customs in Port Townsend... I won't have to swing past Roche on the way back from Victoria...

SomeSailor

06-19-2005, 07:40 AM

I'd just as soon tell 'em to keep me. :)

If they can't prove that you or I are citizens... as retired military... being required to carried their government ID card for the rest of our lives... well, then we're doomed anyhow.

I think a lot of their huffing and puffing about passprots is just that.... DONCAF gave me my clearances and my last TSC/SCI application was 18 pages of background info. From all that they should be able to verify that I'm not a terrorist.

I still think issuing a voluntary civilian Federal ID would be the way to go. Not all these different programs like Nexus even. PKI certificates and smart cards.