Question for the Navy folks

[Randygh]

I was having another moment of idiocy this afternoon and a question popped into several of my brain cells.

How do submarines navigate while submerged? If a sub is underwater for several months how in the world does the skipper know their exact location? Do GPS electromagnetic waves penetrate water? I wouldn't think so, but I'd bet a year's wages today's modern subs know with pinpoint accuracy their exact location anywhere in all the oceans.

Forty years ago before GPS, how did our subs navigate? Plotting courses, speed, time and ocean currents wouldn't be real accurate after a period of time.

[Seapuppy]

ok...I finally had to post on this one cuz I didn't want some skimmer to try and answer this one with something they couldn't possibly know about....
Randy....to answer your question....first off....subs use several methods to navigate...1) the seas are all charted and they pretty much know where they are at all times...2) subs use a devise called SINS..ships inertial navigation system...this is a laser ring gyro that knows pretty much where they are and what course and speed they are going...3) a navigator takes readings from sins, star sightings and a few other methods and know where they are...finally..in one of the antenna's they have (classified as to which one it is)there is a gps loaded into the top of it...they stick that up for a few seconds and it updates the sins and the chartplotters...then the navigator updates the course and speed on a paper chart.....the crew if they are doing they're jobs correctly can pinpoint they're location to a nats hinney!!!.....
what???...no pirate guy???.......

HEY!

I knew we could pull him out of the woodwork! Welcome back Steve!

Too bad the Navy's gonna have to kill ya now... :cry:

Oh yeah... The Pirate Guy... :argh

He's there....

[Randygh]

Steve--Thanks for the info. Very interesting. What happened with the sub, wasn't it the San Francisco, that ran into an underwater mountain several mos ago? Are there still areas of the oceans that aren't 100% accurate in the charts? I heard on the news the skipper has been relieved of his command.

Also, what is a skimmer? A surface ship sailor? Do I detect alittle anomosity between skimmers and submariners? :salute:

They call us "targets" ... go figure :D

[heymagic]

Hey Seapuppy, welcome back !! 40 years ago subs must have been a little nerve wracking to be in, suppose they still are. I imagine more than a few ran into stuff, heck powerboaters do that in daytime :lol: That unfortunate incident in Hawaii a few years ago was one of the more notorius.

We just bought " Pirates of the Carribean (sp) and Cutthroat Island " to keep on the boat. :argh Gene

[Go Aweigh2452]

SF hit an unchartered seamount or underwater mountain. and yes, old dinosaurs believe that there is a feud between skimmers (those that skim the top of the water such as surface ships or as SS said...targets) and those below the water as .. SUB mariners... (as in less than a mariner) NOT submariners... and the feud goes on...

[Seapuppy]

thanks for the welcome..... :argh arrr....now that feels good.....first off the SF hit an uncharted mount at a pretty good clip....which is generally a no no to go hi speed in an area your not sure of ..yes the skipper was relieved cuz when it all boils down to the slag....he's responsible for the safety of his ship....same with the one in hawaii that came up under a japanese fishing vessel.....sad that so many lost thier lives to a stupid error....I remember my first sea trial on a 637 class sub...talk about scary....I wasn't sure how we could figure out where the heck we were until I spent about 10 min. in Control watching the navigator work like crazy.....he knew where we were at all times...now it's alot easier than 20 yrs ago...but still requires alot of expertise in navigating underwater....I'd say that the sea's are about 95% charted.....and the navy knows just about all that they can of the bottom......
there has been a rivalry between submariners(aka=sewerpipe sailors) and surface sailors (aka= skimmers...targets...) ever since the navy bought those first subs......the amazing thing is if you go back in history when the brits were sailing in thier submarines...the admiralty concidered them a novel idea but never really concidered a gentleman's sailing vessel..most of them concidered them as pirates :argh ...hense most of them comiing back from a patrol would fly the skull and crossbones of the jolly roger.......hense :argh the pirate guy.....thanks for bringing him over..... :argh arrr
Gene...when I worked at mare island...we had several subs come in with dents and broken GRP domes(glass reinforced plastic) on the bows......they hit alot of things back then....most of the times it was the Soviets doing crazy ivan's....
thanks for the welcome....hope this site pic's up...I got tired of lurking and not seeing anything happen here!!! :argh arr

We're just slower here :)

[linedog]

We can liven it up a bit with a few polls or invite a pink chicken over?? :shock:

[Tedster]

Don't you even think it! Ted :D

[Seapuppy]

yeah...I think we need a pole AND the pink chicken!! :lol: :argh arrr

[3788sam]

Ted -Can you imagine the guy who had spend all that time with LF for a 183 dollar commision? :roll:

[Tedster]

Nope, guys like these are when you get a rookie involved with the deal and split the comm. with him and have him deal with the turkey. Works all the time. TTom 4087 sent me a personal email about all his attempts to deal with this real loser. Good grief, we don't need him here or anywhere no more! Ted :D

That whole thing went down hill fast. He actually sounds like a decent guy.

The Dock Walk is like a pool of sharks though... you even spill a drop of blood in the water and the "usual suspects" will shred you.

He and Roel seemed to hit it off, and Roel's definitely a stand-up guy, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

... Ted, was that you and Stuart I heard actually talking? 8)

[Go Aweigh2452]

man, why do you guys sucker me into checking out BOC all the time? Pink chicken? then I figured it out all by my lonesome... :lol: Some of the posts over there are a bit over the top... but that is my opinion and another reason to only spill blood here... I think it is time for a pole... er, I mean a poll... :3some:

[linedog]

How about a case of beer and a BBQed chicken? :lol:

[Seapuppy]

I'll spring for chicken and bbq sauce if you guys will pull your boat out of drydock :argh

[Tedster]

Mike what you don't know is that Stuart and I have had many off line conversations and both look forward to meeting each other in person soon. Ted :D

[linedog]

Hey Ted,anything new at the boat show? My wife won't let me go.

[Tedster]

By the time we get to T-town I feel that the 2005's are a year old already. If you went to Seatlle, you have seen it all, unless you didn't find me! Just kidding now don't get all worked up you Ted dodgers! Ted :D

Mike what you don't know is that Stuart and I have had many off line conversations and both look forward to meeting each other in person soon. Ted :D

You'll get along swimmingly. 8)

[Tedster]

what the heck does that mean. Never mind I'm sure I already know what you meant by that. Ted :roll:

I just remember back about how many harsh words you both had to say about each other in the past is all.

You're both very interesting guys, but I just can't see any more opposite personalities and lifestyles.

"swimmingly" is just a faux fancy word for getting along well, despite your past differences.

I know others have been quite enamored by his top-shelf spending and obvious intelligence. But, he has a side of him I don't care much for. He's more happy to tell you about his latest purchase, or thoughts about himself, than he is to have a genuine conversation with you. He's also pretty conspiring in some matters. I'll share more of my thoughts on that with you over lunch someday.

Ironically, as I've told my wife many times, he reminds me a lot of my Dad. And not the good side of him either. :?

[Nelie59]

Met both of you. You are not oil and water but you are not salt and peper either.

There will not be sparks at the union (possibly afterwards but not at the union.)

Just my guess on it. Wish I could be a mouse in the corner :D

You know what I'm talking about Gary.

While they're both nice enough guys, it'd be a stretch.

Ironically, I can sit and talk to both of them and find common ground. Stuart's a sharp guy. We talk (and argue) technical aspects of many things, but I never walked away thinking... "Wow... that conversation made me better in some way"

Ted on the other hand... I walked thinking "Wow... my ears hurt" (just kidding...) :D

Actually Ted, you may not have realized it, but the simple things like showing someone how to splice a line (remember the **** knot?) or passing someone a cigar at the end of the pier, are much more appealing. You honestly enjoy boating. It's not about the electronics you bought last week, the nickle you saved on your last $10,000 purchase, or how much gas your boat burns... when really all you want to talk about is your new boat.

I've had some very interesting conversations with all of you here. And, with only a few exceptions, I've felt like I walked away a better, more knowledgable person. There are exceptions... but thats a short list.

[Tedster]

There you go making me blush again! Thanks! Ted :D

[Randygh]

**** knot? If possible, must be a God-given gift?

[Tedster]

Randy what SS is refering to is actually called a end splice, or wall knot. Not much talent really. Ted :D

**** knot? If possible, must be a God-given gift?

... or a college prank gone horribly wrong :)

[Randygh]

Ted--Thanks for the clarification.

Speaking of **** knots, here's a true story--Years ago a client brought in a male Pomeranian dog. He had very long hair that wrapped around his "doghood" and acted as a touniquet. Needless to say he was in great distress!! His "doghood" with impaired blood supply could not be saved. I ended up doing major reconstructive surgery (penectomy and urethrostomy). With the replumbing, he urinated through an new stoma just below his anus. It was a real hoot to watch him pee. He'd lift his leg and pee straight backwards. He lived for many years.

[3788sam]

One of our cats had the crystal problem- eventually had to remove everything - I thinks the other cats make fun of him now :oops:

[Tedster]

Randy that story made me laugh out loud, everyone around me wanted to know what was so funny! I can just picture it! Ted :D

[linedog]

Ted no I didin't go to the Seattle show, to much of the same stuff. I think I'll go ever other year. Just wondering if there was some mind blowing cool do dad that I had to have?