It is happening...........

[Tedster]

Norman Matton Thomas (November 20, 1884 - December 19, 1968) was a leading American socialist, pacifist, and six-time presidential candidate for the Socialist Party of America. He was ordained as a Presbyterian minister in 1911. As a candidate for President of the U. S., Norman Thomas said, in a 1944 epoch speech: "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism", they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." He went on to say: "I no longer need to run as a Presidential Candidate for the Socialist Party. The Democratic Party has adopted our platform."

[SomeSailor]

What makes you say that?

[Play N Hookie Admiral]

Eriks gonna hate me for getting in this one....but I know what makes him say that. :|

[SomeSailor]

Yeah... I suppose since the economy shows signs of turning around, it's time we focus on the fact that all Democrats are Socialists or some silliness.

The only "it" I see happening is change... and so far it makes sense.

Getting tired of a Department of Education office in Paris?

$2 million spent for the operation of Loran C, which no one uses anymore?

What about the "alternate" engine for the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter that the military doesn't even want?

How about free swine flu shots for every US citizen who wants one this fall?

Yep... I see some change.... or whatever "it" is... But it's not Socialism.

btw... my 401K is up over 30% this last month, and my taxes are less...

[sympilot]

Actually Socialism, in its purest sense, is the most ideal form of government in my opinion.

[SomeSailor]

I think some people ae so hung up on labeling themselves "Republican" or "Democrat" that they lose track of what's really important to their own views.

I guess it comes down to what you expect (personally) from your government.

I prefer a strong military defense (key word defense).

I want an infrastructure that is modern, safe, and make ecological good sense.

I don't mind paying taxes. I pay LOTS of them. If I need more money, I'll make more.

I don't believe that things you do that cause harm to me are your "God given rights" in all cases.

I don't believe things you do to harm yourself are my problem (smokers, drinkers, drug abusers, obesity)

I couldn't care less what happens in your bedrooms. If you're happy with someone in this world, enjoy your life.

I believe we are the custodial species on this planet. Money shouldn't be the deciding factor in everything we do when it comes to managing our environment.

I've voted both Republican and Democrat. More often Republican, but I'm certainly not a partisan person. I respect each person's view, as long as it stays objective and doesn't overtly try to affect or influence my choices, or those of my children.

[dumluck53]

I think some people ae so hung up on labeling themselves "Republican" or "Democrat" that they lose track of what's really important to their own views.

I guess it comes down to what you expect (personally) from your government.

I prefer a strong military defense (key word defense).

I want an infrastructure that is modern, safe, and make ecological good sense.

I don't mind paying taxes. I pay LOTS of them. If I need more money, I'll make more.

I don't believe that things you do that cause harm to me are your "God given rights" in all cases.

I don't believe things you do to harm yourself are my problem (smokers, drinkers, drug abusers, obesity)

I couldn't care less what happens in your bedrooms. If you're happy with someone in this world, enjoy your life.

I believe we are the custodial species on this planet. Money shouldn't be the deciding factor in everything we do when it comes to managing our environment.

I've voted both Republican and Democrat. More often Republican, but I'm certainly not a partisan person. I respect each person's view, as long as it stays objective and doesn't overtly try to affect or influence my choices, or those of my children.


Good platform. I vote Mike for Prez!!

[Tedster]

Maybe, but all who have gone before him, he would only actually do 20% of it, and the rest he would say "you took that out of context"!

[dumluck53]

Heheheh...you're a funny guy, Ted!

[SomeSailor]

Don't worry Ted, I'm not running for any office. :)

[Go Aweigh2452]

The only office I am running for is to get to the ringing phone... (in case someone asks)... :argh2

[Randygh]

I like Mike's platform.

I think most people base alot of their likes or dislikes on politicians based on personality. Many people speak harshly of Newt Gingrich because he stepped out on his wife, was arrogant while Speaker of the House, and yet if you listen to him speak now, he makes some good political observations. Clinton is hated by some because he got a BJ from an intern in the oval office. Pretty disgusting, at least they should have gone into a closet. Then he lied about "not having sex" with Monica. Sorry Bill, but being and attorney you should have known that oral-genital or oral-anal contact is classified as sex in the law books. Dickk Cheney has been and is still being vilified by the media, but what he says is exactly the truth regarding intelligence gathering. I personally can't stand to watch Ted Kennedy. Hell, he killed a young lady and wasn't charged with commiting a crime. But to tell the truth, I don't know Ted Kennedy's voting record in the Senate. Some of his votes have probably been for a good law that I probably would have supported too.

Our Senator Patty Murray has a voting record that is too liberal for me, yet I highly respect Sen. Murray. She worked very hard getting a VA clinic built in Wenatchee and represents Washington in a very professional, ethical manner.

[SomeSailor]

I don't like to label myself as either a Liberal, Democrat, Republican or Conservative. I vote my conscience and hopefully for the better good.

The irony is I find myself arguing most often with those I have the most in common. As a military retiree... my pension (and personal interests) would be better represented by a party that would grow the military budget.

The same goes for social issues. Why should I care about medical for all? I have a great job AND free medical from both Boeing and the military. Same goes for tax relief for the poor... why should I care? I'm a long way from poor.

What about the environment... global warming... growing energy concerns.

Why should I care? The truth is... I SHOULD care, so I do. The guy who makes sense for all of us will get my vote. Regardless of what partyt label you wanna place on me.

[RafaelFigueira]

Actually Socialism, in its purest sense, is the most ideal form of government in my opinion.

It's so rare to read this. I had to come back to make sure it was real.

[Camano Hal]

Actually Socialism, in its purest sense, is the most ideal form of government in my opinion.

That is what the USSR thought too. :lol:

Maybe better suited for industrial nations of the 19th century. :lol:

[bradvo]

I have no idea what the purest sense could be ? Guess it is over my head, won't be the first time either.

[Tedster]

I have no idea what the purest sense could be ? Guess it is over my head, won't be the first time either.

Ya i'm with you, not sure I know where that comment is coming from or going to!?!

[sympilot]

Socialism a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.
The key term here is "community as a whole". In other words, what is good for the community as a whole. Not just one segment of it (top 25%-lower 25% in terms of economic structure).

[sympilot]

That is what the USSR thought too. :lol:

Maybe better suited for industrial nations of the 19th century. :lol:

Marx had the right intent but his views, as often happens with many well intentioned politicians, became a bit distorted.

[SomeSailor]

In it's purest form it would be wonderful, but greed and corruption always seems to get the better of it.

[RafaelFigueira]

Marx had the right intent but his views, as often happens with many well intentioned politicians, became a bit distorted.

Keep in mind Marx wasnt a politician: most of his theory was on the social and economics side of socialism. In fact his work is a brilliant description of capitalism, its inherent problems and its consequences to society, but not much on the politics side. For example, you will not find the concept of "single party" in any of Marx/Engels works. Towards the end he started to think on "how" to achieve a communist society, and then the idea of proletarian revolution came up, but there is still almost nothing about how to keep a communist society running.

Also, Marx wasnt the only socialist theorist: there were other guys, mostly in France. Saint Simon, Leroux and Fourier had three different ideas of what this utopian society should be based on.




In it's purest form it would be wonderful, but greed and corruption always seems to get the better of it.

Since greed and corruption are innate to humans, how does Capitalism handle them? ;)

[Play N Hookie II]

Since greed and corruption are innate to humans, how does Capitalism handle them? ;)

By encouragement of innovative thinking through financial gain. That is what made the US the most powerful nation in the world in its short 200 year lifespan. The idea that I can work harder, smarter or faster than the person next to me and gain rewards for that effort is what drives me to find my personal best each day.

[RafaelFigueira]

By encouragement of innovative thinking through financial gain. That is what made the US the most powerful nation in the world in its short 200 year lifespan. The idea that I can work harder, smarter or faster than the person next to me and gain rewards for that effort is what drives me to find my personal best each day.

I (mostly) agree with you, but I dont understand how that addresses what SomeSailor said: that "greed and corruption always seems to get the better of it".

Regardless, in a theoretical communist society there is still rewards for working harder than the person next to you. You dont have to look too far: a farmers cooperative is a communist concept, where the means of production belong to the group, and there is still rewards for hard-working people.

The idea that in communism you have to share your rewards/profits/gains with those lazy people surrounding you is a misconception: part from propaganda, part from bad examples in pseudo-communist countries.

[Tedster]

By encouragement of innovative thinking through financial gain. That is what made the US the most powerful nation in the world in its short 200 year lifespan. The idea that I can work harder, smarter or faster than the person next to me and gain rewards for that effort is what drives me to find my personal best each day.

I couldn't agree more, and that is what I don't like the most of the liberal Democrat way of thinking, that it has to be fair for everyone across the board.
Ok bring it on guys! :)

[SomeSailor]

Well... As a guy who stands the most to gain from increased defense spending, the least to gain from any social reform (I already have benefits for life) and someone who's in the 35% tax bracket... you'd think I'd agree with you Ted... but I don't.

We need to change a LOT of things in this country. Many should roll back to "the way it was" and many are changes for the better good of the whole. The gap between the "haves" and the have nots" has spread very near to the point of a caste society in the US.

I don't believe in idealic ideas of Utopia, but there's no reason we don't have the best medical, best education and best social system the world has to offer.

And btw... you can have that and capitalism.