Greetings From The East Coast

[Tedster]

And I'll be the first to say you're not welcome here. Ted

[3788sam]

I'm ducking under my desk :cya:

[Seapuppy]

What'd I miss???What'd I miss??? :dontknow:

:argh arr

[Go Aweigh2452]

yeah, what just happened? :dontknow:

Well...

As you guys might have been following... Ted has managed to mix it up with Lazy Flamingo (Al) over on BOC.

Just as the dust was starting to settle over there... Al comes over here.

I'm kindof in a dilema really, cuz he seems like a nice enough guy. I just feel he only came here to poop in Ted's back yard.

I've blocked his ISP for now, but am not sure exactly what tack to take on this.

What's the general concensus... or is there one?

[LeeWay]

This sight is to be of help to NW boaters. If he isn't helpful or entertainingkeep him out.

[reggies3270]

Being mostly a lurker my opinon may or may not be of any interest to anyone here but having said that this site is cruising along nicely and has been for a number of years now. Why allow the kind of crap that is happening on the BOC to come here? Strat deserves a medal for what he must be going through over there. Just my humble opinion, back I go to lurk mode :arrow:

[Go Aweigh2452]

I'm with Leeway... let him play... unlike BOC, not jsut one person has dlelte power... some of us have the power of delete.. not just one person so.... if he is too entertaining or just a PITA... we'll delete and ask questions later... if it gets too bad, then we can ask SS to ban/block his ISP

[Roel Jansen]

Ok, I think I jump in here and give you my very humble opinion!

I met Al (Lazy Flamingo) twice and it is a really great guy totally different from what I expected he would be regarding his posts on BOC. If some one likes them, ok to me it's a matter of taste. We had a very nice evening to gether with his frien Arend, Dutchwavehopper and me. We had a lot of laughter some beers but also some very serious matters were on order. Also BOC was discussed and he stated he used the Dockwalk forum for what it was ment to be for some fun, away from all the technical matters, more a kind of comrady.
So if regarding to the BOC site, it's a pitty that a lot of people have a very strong opinion of others, that imho I am sure off if they have met each other in person would be totally different.
I think if we make very clear that posts with big images and written in different caracters than the standard are not welcome in the forum, I think a lot could have been prevented. I think we should do it here.
I also think that we must realise what the reason and results were for founding this Forum I still am glad that I was invitrd to join. OK I live in NW Europe and in the NW of the Netherlands, butI wonder what we would do if Doug dmcb would come back here? I think most here would hartly welcome him! Althoug some, my self included had some let's say less pleasant discussions with him over here and at BOC. And yes to stay in a topic over there, I know Doug deletes all his personal e-mail from Boccers.
He even deleted my e-mail adress from his PC! But for me he would be welcome here and I think so will be AL.
A captain of the US marine corps 4 time wounded in Vietnam carriyng the Purple Hart!

[Tedster]

I like you Roel and I respect you, but LF is not welcome here. Sorry but that is the way it is, anyone that wants to attack me and my future with Olympic Boat Center is going to get all I got and get blasted big time. We don't need his constant lies here or anywhere. Sorry but that the way i feel.

Ted

[heymagic]

Been gone this evening....I missed all the fun. My opinion : This IS IBNW...LF is not a NW boater. 2: this is a boating site, LF seems to know little or nothing about boating. 3: We are pretty much all friends here, minor disagreements are settled amicably, no reason to bring trouble in for trouble's sake. 4: We bought and paid for this site and are under no obligation to include everyone in the world. So I guess you can tell where I'm heading, no LF for me. Not here, not ever. Absolutley no reason to allow him on this site. As to others mentioned, again no reason to bring problems back IMHO.

edit..there is no "o" in bring....

[Tedster]

I think what most of us are saying is that this is a local group of guys and gals that know each other and actually go boating together. Not an International site like BOC is. So if you want to play with a guy like LF then help yourself to the BOC where he will always be, just not here.....ok?!

Ted

[Nelie59]

I think that we have this site for the NW boater and I think that is the way it should stay. :argh Will LF or Doug ever grace the dock at Swantown? I think not. I know that I have not made "all fo the gatherings" but I have made a few. I like Gene consider most everybody here a friend, I have to streach for Ted but that is OK :D LOL, I would do what ever I could for anybody because I trust them because of the way the conduct themself here.

If somebody wants to be here to stir things up I don't think we need any help in doing that, thank you very much.

My vote - let him stay on BOC.

[Roel Jansen]

I have still something to add to keep things straight.
This side was elected with one purpose and the aim of the flounders was to create a Board that could ban people, the flounders thought it was necessary to do so. To keep things the way they and a lot others thought was the more decent and desirable way to go.
To achieve that it was only on invotation that you could become a member. The Flounders of this site and DMCB was one of them, decided who was allowed to enter when brought up by one of the members. The site was named after most of the flounders area they boated in. The recent problems that arose were more or less due of the entrance of one of those persons on BOC who I think in his enthousiasm acted in away the flounders and a lot of other people at BOC disliked. When I was invited the first years were one of relatively hapiness here and when the time passed by the rules became easier to become a member and even every body was welcome. I than and now I am and was not a supporter of banning people in advance. Only after commiting some thing against the rules we all know I am totally in favour of banning that person who ever he or she is. I dislike the way that LF's post was already deleted before we all could even have read it. For me it's very clear now that I will not cooperate by banning any person in advantage without I even could make my own opinion about how serious his post was. I think that wouldbe the same as finding out that there were dfferent agenda's here at BOC that lead to Mike somesailor promised to run this board in a straight way as it should have been done. I deeply respect him for that and other matters. I take good notice of the fact that some consider this board a forum only for those who have met each other and boat in the Pacific NW. So I will take my conclusions. But I will advice you to ask Mike not to post on BOC any more with a direct link to this site in his posts. Make it an on invitation board again.

[heymagic]

Roel, this site was never an invite only. No one was ever brought up for membership and voted on. It was started by a group of NW boaters who personally knew each other. Why Doug was a Flounder I never figured out...but he was known by several of the members, myself included. LF on the other hand is known only by you. Doesn't seem to have anything to offer in a boating sense. Doesn't live in the NW. Doesn't have any compelling reason to be here other than **** Ted off. I personally don't know the guy but his style and arrogance and childishness , not to mention total lack of class and common sense really irritate me. As to his supposed Viet Nam hero status...let him haunt a military website. Again there is no compelling reason to have him be on this site.

As to Mike "advertising" our site, there are a heck of a lot of NW boaters that show up on BOC and may want to come over here. I see no problem with that.

I don't see anyone here questioning your participation and hope you don't assume that. Gene

Well... it appears that were in a small split here.

First... let me clear up a couple of things:

1. I feel IBNW should be open to anyone who wants to here and has something to add and is willing to do so.

2. I feel we will always have an obligation to those who are here now and those who already contribute to making this an intersting place to be. Ted's a perfect example of what makes this such a cool place. He took the reins when asked on the burgees we were all happy to get last week (thanks again).

3. I think registration is something that should be required. Not a fee, not a test, not a qualification, but a simple username / password should be required to lurk, view or generally see whats going on here (like this conversation). There are reasons which I can share if needed.

All that being said... I've changed some things. You may have noticed that you are required to login to enter a forum now. This is being done on many other sites (The Hull Truth comes to mind) as well. This is for a couple of reasons. If someone is here to cause trouble, I then have a direct link to their path in here, and a way to exclude if necessary. They just pick a name and a password... it takes 30 seconds (again there are reasons for this).

The case with Lay Flamingo (Al) is a difficult one. He and Ted have definitely had their difficulties and drama on BOC. I believe that he finally made a decision to come here (logged in anyways) only after his last spat with Ted and BOC and word of it got here (remember when GoAweigh asked what was going on?).

Long story short. I believe he was here to crap in Ted's back yard. That's a shame because I think he has a geniune interest in boating or at least being around boat people. I wish the two of them could get along, and this whole thing had not spilled over to here. He'll stay outside until such time as things settle down.

I guess its like a bar. You're welcome to come in, have a seat and enjoy a beer. But, at the same time if you come in with the express purpose of starting trouble... someone has to show you the door. I've run with lots of guys in my past that had that same motive... we always got tossed early on, but were welcome again once things cooled down.

This is still an open issue and if someone can give me a compelling reason to change course, I'm always open to ideas.

[dumluck53]

I don't like the idea of banning someone before they have screwed up. This country is a democracy and one is considered innocent until proven guilty. We're not the Third Reich passing judgement on a class of people that use large fonts and a plethora of dumb jokes.

On the other hand...

This site isn't a democracy. He did crap in the playpen called BOC. We owe more to our Tedster than LF.

It's a fine line but I feel he should be allowed to post with the understanding that we don't use "loud" fonts here and that he needs to tone down his pictures. If he won't do that then give him the boot. I'm just not comfortable with kicking someone to the curb before they smell. Who knows, maybe he has learned his lesson.

I've got a feeling that once folks quit responding to his posts he'll either conform or leave on his own. Whether it's here or on BOC.

[Randygh]

Mike--I think you've done an excellent job administering IBNW. I respect your judgement in deleting the post.

I don't care to read personal attacks, petty bitching, or outright lies from someone who takes pleasure in such garbage. I agree with LeeWay, Gene and others. I use this board for information and entertainment. All of my employees are ladies, so I need contact with gentlemen (?) to maintain some resemblance of sanity. :joker:

[Seapuppy]

well..this is a tough one for sure...Al and I have been talking for quite awhile off line and I can say that with some sort of confidence...he was just proded into defending himself on the boc...whether or not he's right or not..I have no idea....he's one of those types that he's like a badger....hit him with a stick and he'll take it for a few hits..but then he will grab that damned stick with his teeth and not let go for anything....
to ban one person from another site I feel is not really the right thing to do....although I can understand the reasoning...I don't think it's fair...as long as he obeys the rules here...I feel he should be allowed.....
a long story short..I can understand what happened there if you take a step back and look at the overall picture....I like al...he's not a bad guy from my experiences.....if you want my take on it....i'd let him come in with the idea he has to follow the rules whatever they are....3 strikes ..he's out....just as anyone else would be expected to recieve.....but at this point it's up to the BOC boss.....not me.... :argh arrr

Well... if he came back... he'd certainly see this series of posts and realize where we're coming from.

You all bring up some wonderful points. I'm just the bouncer here... perhaps this deserves some more discussion. I'm all ears and appreciate your opinions and ideas.

Ted; what's your spin on this? Do you think he could add anything even though he's not local (and you guys obviously have no love lost)?

Roel, you've met him first hand, which is one of the reasons he came over here. I had actually hoped he was coming through this way on his way back from the Netherlands. You think he's a decent guy then?

[3788sam]

As a nugget member here I don't expect to have a lot of pull !
I agree with don't ban anyone until they start problems .
Now having said that it was pretty obvious to me that he only came over here to get under Ted's skin.
I think if he wanted to be a genuine contributor, he would have sign up long ago or would have waited until the smoke cleared over at BOC.
LF is a posting fool at BOC and some of things a pretty funny, and do think it was a good thing that he looked up other members while on vaca.
Just my 2 cents!

Well that really clears it up :?

Here's the scoop then...

Tony brought up a good point about living in a democracy... and I think Doug mentioned similar. I think that's what others are feeling as well?

It would clarify things a bit more for me in the future.

I'd appreciate everyone's side of this.

I've placed a VOTE in the Announcements Forum. Please do your part and let me know what you think. This is time-critical and I'd appreciate everyone's opinion on this.

[linedog]

My internet was down for a day! I didin't invite him honest!! Jezze lose the net for a day and all heck breaks lose. :shock:

[Tedster]

SS as I said on your poll, my spin is simple you allow him in then you will be taking me out, just that simple, call me all your petty lil' names you want. Anyone who lies to protect himself and attacks others in the process and threatens their livelyhood is totally not in my life and all of the people around him. So if this is what you want to do then someone come get get this disgusting burgee I had made for all of you off my hands before I throw it away! Ted :evil:

[Kuredu]

Ted, I think you should stop mincing words and say what you really feel :lol:

Just kidding Ted - I am just trying to take the edge off. OK, here's my opinion, as a very few posts contributor:
- I don't like LF's style of posting. It's annoying and I believe he is doing it to be annoying. I hate that.
- I don't, as a rule, read LF's posts because they annoy me, so I missed the issue with Ted, but it will be a huge loss if Ted leaves this site. I have never found Ted looking for trouble or anything but friendly and helpful. I like that.
- I believe in democracy. I also believe a leopard will not change his spots. I believe everyone is good till proven different. I dont need Ted Bundy to come take out someone in my block to show his colors. LF has shown his makeup. Period. I don't need for him to show it here to prove it.

Remember the internet is, for the better part, faceless. It's real easy to be an ******* when you are typing on a screen. Much more difficult when someone is sitting right in front of you.

As for this being a different site - it's just a different address in my address bar on my browser. I'm still sitting exactly where I was when I posted on the BOC a few minutes ago. I cannot see how or why I would act any different here than on any other web page.

For the record - I posted for allowing LF in on the poll. I did not read properly and assumed the question related to hearsay/rumor/reputation about someone. LF is not a rumor - I have read some of his posts. I would like to officially change my vote on the subject.

Having said that - if the decision is to allow LF here I will abide with the majority and continue to tread LF with due respect (and ignore most of his posts) till he does something to miff this board. Then, like everyone else in a similar situation, he should be banned outright.

SS as I said on your poll, my spin is simple you allow him in then you will be taking me out, just that simple, call me all your petty lil' names you want. Anyone who lies to protect himself and attacks others in the process and threatens their livelyhood is totally not in my life and all of the people around him. So if this is what you want to do then someone come get get this disgusting burgee I had made for all of you off my hands before I throw it away! Ted :evil:

Ted; As I told you on the phone... I'm in a awkward enough position on this as it is. I don't take well to threats or enuendo either. Promising to throw yourself on the stake if the IP ban is lifted is childish. I know you feel strongly about this guy, but he is currently the ONLY IP address ban in effect and there are many others that would but just as likely to argue with you out there.

Please take a deep breath and bear with this. Lets keep this lighter than all that OK?

[Roel Jansen]

But now as everything is working fine and the only thing on mind is work and get the doggies moving to put my boat into the water. I am able to read more here and at BOC to see what I missed the last two days. Gene, the only thing I think I now was why this site was raised and who was the person whose behaviour on BOC and in private was the main reason for it. I heard that later but I never knew or know for sure that it was true. If I am wrong please correct me. I was personally invited by DMCB. Later on there was a question in a post if some one knew a certain person and if he should be atmitted. I remeber that I was the only one who answered that post in favourof the person and he became a member and still is.
So that's why I jumped into the conclusion that it was invitation only at first, sorry that I was wrong. I think DMCB became a flounder because he was welcomed in the NWPAC with his big motorhome and towing a boat also as a very special guy. Honest and great admiration and a lot of nice posts was all over the BOC forums from DMCB and the PACNW 'ers in those days.
What we are discussing now is in imho the same as why I joined IBNW.
At first I was very happy with it but I began to realize that banning that person was a kind of weakness and not right. Weaknees maybe not the right word, but I think the president should have interfered much earlier when one guy became too much a dominating factor and acted if he owned the Club. Gene, I know as you wrote here you went to a lot of trouble to get a very good friend of yours to be admitted here at IBNW. And I think that is was the right thing to do. You convinced me. Ok I am the only one who have met AL and I only met Rob L another BOC member once. Both were very nice meetings. Ofcourse you shouldn't take my small experience with Al, a couple of phone calls two times a see and my opinion that he is a totally different guy as you would think he is from his postings, as granted.
But a little disappointed I am. Ted and others have made it clear to me that they like a board with people they know from the PACNW. So I will leave this side and go over to BOC. I will give a last opinion stop the Boat sales guys here and at BOC to interfiere in posts where they defend and advocate their commercial interests against other members. Just do as Ted does: phone me! Some people learned their lesson but for that you must give them a change and a good president corrects them early as things threathen to go wrong. Mike, Somesailor is such a president.
For me no harm done no bad feelings! :)

[Stratocaster]

Just for the record, and only because it was brought up, I have no problem with SS having a link to IBNW, or even to his boat for sale, in his tag on BOC.

I won't comment here on Lazy Flamingo.

Good luck SS in shaking this out...I feel your pain pal.

[Go Aweigh2452]

Roel, you must have misread the post thinking you are not invited to be here? You s well as everyone else is asked to stay... as I stated before... Can't we all just get along? Why does everyone want to make such a big deal over this stuff anyway? I as well as everyone else enjoy your spirit and lively conversation. You have a lot to offer us here... I'd recommend you NOT leave but if you decide to lay low and not post for a while until the dust settles.... no harm, no foul. As I have stated before, I too felt slighted and just hung low for a while and then came back to join what I consider my friends and buddys... Even being WAYYYYY over in your neck of the woods, I would welcome you or anyone you said was OK in my home.

Fair winds and following seas... to everyone for the next couple of days...

Mike is going fishing (or should I say "catching?) with me in Sekiu.... for a few days, no internet, no contact with the outside world AND NO IBOATNW!!!!!!

... so everyone have at it and when we return this Sunday, everything hopefully will be settled...

[Roel Jansen]

Strat, the reason is I mentioned SS his link was that if you don't want people from BOC coming over don't give them a link. That's the only reason. I know you wouldn't mind.

Doug thanks, but realise I am not mad or so just I think if you guys want a club for PACNW I can understand that. I am not qa quitter but I can live with it. But I think I will follow your advice let's slow this down and we will see. Btw I didn't invite Al to come over here. But he kenew that this site existed. That's why I mentione the link. Have a couple of nice days catch some and we see each other here and on BOC. Hope those guys get my boat in the water next week. :)

[dumluck53]

Roel, ol buddy, don't leave. I like your postings. You're a very smart, wonderful, humane individual. I, and many others, appreciate you.

This site may be called I Boat Northwest but I appreciate the diversity of many opinions from all corners of the world. I think others feel the same way.

Hang in there Roel. For everyone else, we're Americans dammit. Americans don't quit. We don't give up. We don't throw in the towel. Let's knock off the quitting crap. Instead let's post even more and make this a better site than it was. This site has value and is worth fighting for.

[heymagic]

I agree 100%. I've learned much from Roel and enjoy his presence here tremendously. His insight and intelligence are something we need. We'll weather this little storm and be the better for it. Gene

[Pegasis]

Hey Roel - What's this I'm reading about you quitting?

When you show up here in the PacNW I'll be one of the people standing in line waiting to buy you a drink, like I'm sure many others. You probably won't even have to pay for dinner.

We don't like Doug just because he showed up on our door step with a big motor home with a boat attached. We liked him before we knew he had all that money and would love him just the same if all he could afford was a small boat and a vehivle just big enough to tow it.

You're both great guys and have lots to contribute.

[Randygh]

Roel,

I too appreciate your comments. I don't know anyone else in The Netherlands or Europe for that matter, so I like to hear your perspectives on world matters much less you insight into quality beer (even though I don't drink). I also enjoyed viewing your canal boating picts.

[LadyDi381]

I have known you for several years through BOC and IboatNW. I would hate to see you leave here. I have always enjoyed your sense of humor and stories of the Netherlands. I truly believe everyone here considers you a friend as well as a fellow boater.
Diane

[Roel Jansen]

Thanks all for your warm support, I very much appreciated it. I like this board because from the beginning it was like a safe heaven in the world of forums on the internet. I also like to be on the other side at BOC I found that site when I bought our first boat and it was just elected by Mark Erbgut who was sick an tired of the Bayliner bashing and wanted to talk about Bayliners in possitive way. This site I think is, as a lot of us have said here, different because as a smaller group we can argue better without having it ended in a nasty way.
At BOC it is some times inevitable that things suddenly can run out of control in just a couple of hours and a lot of harm can be done despite the great Job Strat is doing.
Yes, I met Al lazy flamingo and when I saw his first posts I thought crazy flamingo would fit better. I thought it inevitable and not done if I shouldn't made an appointment with a BOC member visiting our country and stayed very close from were I live so I arranged the meeting. I also was very curious about the person behind that pink bird. But when he called the first time I was very surprised that he was totally different from what I had in mind regarding his posts. When I met him the first time at our Marina it was a confirmation of his telephone call. The meeting together with Frans (Dutchwavehopper) with him and his friend Arend was one of old buddies who knew each other already for a long time. Just a nice guy.
He asked me that Somesailor is that a woman? Why do you think so? He signs his posts with miss Diane. That's the name of his boat Al! :D
A funny thing is that I thought that Tedster who I never met but from what I could dirivate from his postings could be a guy like Al.
Personally I think we don't need the Lazy Flamingo stuff here. it is already at BOC and if Stuart doesn't like it he can come back here! :)
I agree with Diane if he goes wrong it's a matter of Mike to stop it at once but I think it will not be neccesary. I even doubt if he will stay here often.
I think Al likes the bigger scene of the Dock walk at BOC.

[Tedster]

Roel you are already in, you own one of our burgee's and you have all of our respect, so business as usual......ok?! Ted :D

[Roel Jansen]

As usual Ted! :D

Hey, my first one liner! :)

[Tedster]

Roel guess what you set a new personal record! Ted :D

[coolchange]

Damn, you turn your back for a few minutes and the fan is a mess...

Roel...glad you're sticking around we need your world view
Ted...glad to see, or at least it sounds like, you have brought your good guy genes to bear on the matter and will keep your burgee...btw thanks for mine.
SS...I like the bar analogy...screw up once and you get sent home, do it again and you get to drink elsewhere...you have a tough job and do it well...

[Go Aweigh2452]

speaking of burgees, will post a pix of the new one from Sekiu tomorrow when I get to a card reader that will read my pix card. Nice shot with the sunset in the background (and rain).

I'd like to see everyone take an interesting shot of their burgee with an interesting background/story during the year???

[Kuredu]

Not that I want to say "told you so" ... but.... BUMP. :twisted:

Too funny...

Well... we gave it shot I suppose. Best you can say for it.

[LadyDi381]

Gees, now you are sounding like my husband. :D
Di

Di?

Are you talking about the "Well... we gave it shot I..." or "I told ya so post?"

:D

[Kuredu]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Di might be referring to me..... :oops:

I think so...


Told ya so... :P

[Kuredu]

:lol:

[LadyDi381]

:D :D :D