somesailor and other diesel owners

[bradvo]

Mike and anyone else who owns diesel trucks or boats.

I have read on many boat sites and have talked to a few mechanics who all recommend some snake oil formula to your diesel fuel now for lubricity since we now burn low sulfur fuel.
I just talked to a Coastal marine service support person who also just said to use it, he was not trying to sell me any product, just said use it to help your pump and injectors from wearing prematurely.

My question is this, for those who own diesel trucks what you say about this? When I mention this at work to the diesel truck owners they all look at me like .............What are you talkin bout Willis ................

So is this just an anal thing with us boaters??? or are you also doing this or hearing about issues .
Thanks
Brad

[kwb]

You will get mixed suggestions but assuming you have old tech engines (mechanical, non common rail sort of stuff) adding some lube is probably a good thing. Good news from what I have read is that you can get your snake oil for free - used crankcase oil will do.

[3788sam]

Brad,
I do not run anything through our engines -1999 Cummins 270 6BTAs mechanically injected
We do not have any excessive smoke or soot, just did 1000 hour last year and other then adjusting valves erverthing was fine.

[voyager]

I believe the newer engines are designed to run on the low sulfur fuel. the older engines are not. I have not added anything besides a biocide in the past but I am going to start burning my old oil and transmission fluid in the boat. It will be in small amounts but it will add some lubricant and from everything I have read it will not harm them. I have also read that quite a few of the larger ships have a system that periodically pumps old oil out of the engine and into the fuel tank then pumps new oil into the engine. That way they are always refreshing the oil, extending the time period on changes.

[Randygh]

Is it the sulfur waste products in the used crankcase oil that is beneficial to the older diesel engines?

[Apperloo]

I started using Powerup Gen 49D in my fuel http://www.powerupusa.net/info_gen49d.htm
Not sure if it will make any diff or not, but if it keeps my injectors clean I will be satisfied.
In my business i mostly deal with agriculture and a lot of my customers swear by it in their tractors and trucks
Most use the oil additive as well

[SomeSailor]

Is it the sulfur waste products in the used crankcase oil that is beneficial to the older diesel engines?

I don't think there is anything "beneficial" to burning old oil, other than the $5-$6 I save in fuel on that tank. :)

I use Lucas Oil treatment on mine to keep the injectors clean. I'm only at around 140K now, but I've never had a single mechanical issue or tune up necessary. (knock on wood)

[bradvo]

I began to use a treatment last summer or was it the summer before?? anyway, I have not been loyal to a brand but I do read the label to avoid alcohol. Guess I will stay with this since
many of you are practicing the same.

[Fred P]

I have read a lot on this subject and talked to some that are in the know. I put some Lucas in from time to time and I have started adding one oz of two cycle oil per gallon to my diesels. Ultra low sulfur is to diesel somewhat like ethanol is to gas. It does not add water like ethanol does but it does not have the lub that the older engines need. Big brother helping us.

Fred P...............

[Willapa Trophy]

Detroit and Mercedes both say no to any additives other than anti-gel. The biggest problem you will have with low sulfer is it like bio works as a good solvent as far as your fuel system goes, and cleans the tank, etc.. The problem I saw most often after the change over was some injector failures, clean fuel and the proper micron fuel filters are your friend.

[kwb]

Keep in mind that Detroit and Mercedes are dealing with 90+% of product in use being 10yrs or newer, even with fleet age at highest levels in years it is still fairly new comparitvely to the tech level of most boat diesels. Most boats are 100% mechanical injection and ones that are 8-10yrs old would have been built with tech that never would have anticipated ULSD, Heavy truck (and probably the chevy/dodge/ford guys) knew ULSD was coming at the point that 2002/04 emission changeover when there were significant changes made so those systems were designed for it even though ULSD didn't take effect until '07 emissions.

I don't have a diesel (wish I did) but knowing what I do, working where I work, I would not run an old tech motor without some sort of lube additive to the fuel if forced to burn ULSD.

For you guys that think DPF and regen were an experience wait to see what the SCR systems do for adding more stuff. I equate it to a nice clean SBC from 1968 with a oil pressure sender, a wire for choke, a wire for the water temp sensor then going to about 1985 where same engine is covered in vacuum lines, AIR pumps etc.

[kwb]

Also want to add that the problems aren't at the injectors it is typically at the pump. The lack of lube causes wear in pump which then means that pressures drop.

[SomeSailor]

Kost boats are 100% mechanical injection and ones that are 8-10yrs old would have been built with tech that never would have anticipated ULSD, Heavy truck (and probably the chevy/dodge/ford guys) knew ULSD was coming at the point that 2002/04 emission changeover when there were significant changes made so those systems were designed for it even though ULSD didn't take effect until '07 emissions.

My 2002 Cummins ISB was designed to meet the 2007 EPA changes (they were the first), but I think that mainly had to do with aftercooler additions and the computerized injector system. It is the same motor they used since 2000 or so when they went away from the mechanical injectors we see in boats. I use Lucas but but that's about it. Keep the filters changed so the pumps aren't working too hard.

[bradvo]

So what are the indicators of a faulty diesel fuel pump, first thing that comes to mind would be surging but that could also be beginning of a clogged filter.

About 4 years ago I had to adjust the idles up on both my fuel pumps, must have been some wear to have caused this ??

[SomeSailor]

So what are the indicators of a faulty diesel fuel pump, first thing that comes to mind would be surging but that could also be beginning of a clogged filter.

About 4 years ago I had to adjust the idles up on both my fuel pumps, must have been some wear to have caused this ??

White smoke is the precursor to most all pump failures. A lean diesel smokes white... a rich diesel (usually injectors) cause black smoke and a sheen on the water for boats. On trucks, there are two pumps... A lift pump and a injector pump. One will kill the other if not noticed and fixed.

Lack of torque and white smoke are the symptoms I saw. (only minor though which is the scary part)

[Chass]

Also want to add that the problems aren't at the injectors it is typically at the pump. The lack of lube causes wear in pump which then means that pressures drop.

That is correct.

I found a report where they tested the lubricity of just about everything a guy could think of adding to his diesel truck. The highest on the list of additive was biodiesel. It lubricated better than any other additive on the market. Just a little bit can really go a long ways to lubricate your pump.

I have a 98 Cummins. The truck has 232k miles on it and it got a new pump at 90k under warranty. The truck runs great and no additives have been used except that I ran biodiesel for a year back when it was cheaper than regular diesel.

I do not think additives are necessary or even helpful. The difference is too minimal to quantify.

Chass
ct

[Go Aweigh2452]

Surging or hessitation with my 7.3 was due to a failed cam position sensor. Recall but I has already changed out to an international made one. Dieselkleen would be my choice of additives but I have not used any in a long while. I also carry an extended warranty which has twice paid for itself. If you are buying new, I'd recommend third party extended warranty.

[bradvo]

I'm pretty sure that was the brand I bought at Williams a few weeks back. They had a concentrated gallon that treated 1000 gallons of diesel, being I carry 600 gallons it seemed the way to go. I think it was 24 bucks for a gallon, not that bad considering the price of some of these products.

I heard truckers just add tranny fluid, maybe they know best :?:

[Go Aweigh2452]

I heard truckers just add tranny fluid, maybe they know best :?:

Tranny fluid will not increase your cetane (equivalent of octane). DK will and therfore overall better for your engine those that use tranny fluid are looking for more lubrication but standard Diesel has all you'll need.

[bradvo]

Tranny fluid will not increase your cetane (equivalent of octane). DK will and therfore overall better for your engine those that use tranny fluid are looking for more lubrication but standard Diesel has all you'll need.

Lubricity was the subject and according to some local Boat diesel service shops the new low sulfur does not supply enough of it .

[Go Aweigh2452]

Lubricity was the subject and according to some local Boat diesel service shops the new low sulfur does not supply enough of it .

I suppose it depends on the engine. Ford says I'm ok with the lower sulpher content with my 7.3. I can not speak for other makes. Not sure if DK also increases lubrication. I'll have to read the label some time...

[SomeSailor]

I would be concerned if I were running anything pre-2000 or so. The 6BT Cummins for example all use mechanical injectors and would be well before they started preparing for ULSD. The ISB started in 1999 and as far as I know, they were designed with low sulfur plans in mind. I'm thinking most of you guys have the 6BT motors in your boats? (for you Cummins guys)

[kwb]

The 6BT has been around a lot longer than 1999 - My dad did a repower in about 1990 with 250HP versions into a 34' uniflite then put the 300HP versions in his own boat in ~1992. I think it was a fairly recent release at that point. (I was fairly young at the time and was the tool fetcher and resin maker)

Most of the fuel system on them is not common to the truck application I don't know what has changed and when along the way on the marinized but if I was running anything in a boat less than 4-5 yrs old I would be adding something.

[Chass]

The 5.9 litres (360.0 cu in) 6BT, aka the Cummins "12-valve" was the first member of the "B" engine family to be used in a light truck vehicle. The 6BT used Robert Bosch GmbH fuel systems, injectors and VE rotary pump and P7100 inline injection pumps. This engine started life in 1984 as an agricultural engine, for use in Case agricultural equipment. It was produced in a joint venture between Cummins Engine Corp. and Case - called Consolidated Diesel Corp. After 1989, this engine was also used in the Dennis Dart midibus, as well as in light to medium sized commercial trucks and buses.

Its a great engine. I tuned up a 12 valve over the weekend. Inherintly balanced and mechanically sound. More than I can say for a Flowersmoke or the Duramax injector eater. ;)

Chass
ct

[SomeSailor]

The 6BT has been around a lot longer than 1999

I said the ISB hit the streets in 199... not the 6BT. But I think all the marinized ones most of you have are 6BT motors and not designed with ULSD in mind.

[kwb]

I would be concerned if I were running anything pre-2000 or so. The 6BT Cummins for example all use mechanical injectors and would be well before they started preparing for ULSD. The ISB started in 1999 and as far as I know, they were designed with low sulfur plans in mind. I'm thinking most of you guys have the 6BT motors in your boats? (for you Cummins guys)

The way I read that the first couple times was that the marinized engine was based on ISB after ~2000. I am not sure when or if they have a common rail/24V marine version at this point, I know they do for the 8.3L One thing to keep in mind with the 5.9 Cummins is that the Dodge version isn't even the same as lots of the other road/off-road vehicles that use the 5.9L.

Since the question was based on a marinized application (and this is a boat board) I focused that direction.

[Chass]

When the ISB came out in the Dodge, they made a QSB version for boats and offroad applications. Its only "based" on the same engine.

Chass
ct

[SomeSailor]

The way I read that the first couple times was that the marinized engine was based on ISB after ~2000.

I don't think so. Cummins Marine motors are 6BT (full mechanical)



I am not sure when or if they have a common rail/24V marine version at this point

The ISB is a 24 valve motor.


One thing to keep in mind with the 5.9 Cummins is that the Dodge version isn't even the same as lots of the other road/off-road vehicles that use the 5.9L.

Sure they are. The ISB block is just that... an ISB block. The 6BT would be no different. Matter of fact, there are companies out there that marinize 6BT truck blocks to the same standards that Merc does for a much reduced price.

[SomeSailor]

When the ISB came out in the Dodge, they made a QSB version for boats and offroad applications. Its only "based" on the same engine.

Chass
ct

I understand the blocks on the QSB motors are sculpted to get the weight down, but they're still the same motor in any performance aspect.