I almost feel violated.........

[Watts-N-Shots]

OK.....I fully respect the Coast Guard for the job they do and that will never change, but after being boarded last Monday, I felt almost violated.

I took my boat and seven of my friends over to the Mariners home opener game last Monday. We stopped briefly in Elliot Bay to fender up prior to mooring at Bell Harbor. I saw the cutter a couple hundred feet away checking us out but didn't really think much of it. After we moored I went up to the office to report in and get the gate code. On my way back to the boat I see that the CG has deployed an inflatable which is now along side my boat in the marina. No big deal....I've got my act together.

First action, everyone has thier IDs checked against the system, no issues there. Then my guests all stand on the dock as an almost hour long inspection is performed. I've been inspected before but never like this. Everything checked out except I didn't have my garbage placard permanently attached, which I corrected under observation. They tried to find something out of order, but there was nothing to be found.

My issue is the interrogation that followed the inspection and lack of violations. I was questioned about my horsepower multiple times in an attempt to get me to slip on the math I guess. Uh, 260 x 2 is still 520. I was asked at least four times if I know what the legal drinking limit is for operating a boat, which of course I do and the one beer I had kept me below it. We then rechecked some inspection items and I answered more questions that had previously been answered. At this point I'm thinking that I am being played with but remained respectful. Not sure if there was a bet that a violation would be found or making us late for the game seemed like enjoyment. Something seemed off to me though.

Like I said, I respect the Coast Guard and I'll just chaulk it up to a bad experience.......very frustrating at the time though.

[Go Aweigh2452]

Been boarded and as they started in on me and treating me like I was a bad guy I simply stated that if they kept it up that I would also treat them with the same lack of respect they were treating me with. That got me no where until a senior (older) CG guy came out and respect got to be the norm. How much common sense does one need before they see that we as boaters are trying to comply and if we have 99% of what we need, we are obviously not the bad guys...

This lack of respect really torques me off. There is no need for it, ever...

Glad you did not get shot, pepper sprayed or hit with a baton....

[Papa Charlie]

When I was working oil spills, had one instance where we had a shave tail start spouting what we should be doing and that I need to do this and do that. I started to respond politely but that only got him to do more as he felt he owned me now. Finally, I told him to shut his mouth as he was on my boat and away from the dock and if he didn't like what I was doing he could swim back to the pier. When we got back he started into me again and about that time an real officer showed up and indicated that he would handle it. After the shave tail left the group he appoligized and then went to deal with the young man separately. The proper way to handle it.
Clean Bay use to actually spend time training these guys. He was new and I guess he had gained all knowledge by osmosis through his uniform.
In this case I knew I could get away with letting him have it. In a boarding situation, if it got out of hand, I would have asked for his name and rank and the name of his superior officer and contact information. Be surprised how this has an effect in the private sector and the military.
Some times there is a reason for what is happening that we are unaware of and to do their job it is in their best interest not to tell you, or should I say the guys they may be looking for. This doesn't sound like it but you never know.

[Play N Hookie II]

That stinks. Sorry you had that experience. Glad that you were prepared for them and all was in order. Out of curiousity. Did you have a PS inspection sticker? I know that this is not done by the CG but have wondered if they treat you differently with or without it.

[Watts-N-Shots]

Yea....I felt bad for my party as they had to hang out and wait for an hour wondering "what the hell?". It was obvious that I was in compliance overall and not really sure why the harsh treatment. One of the CG members commented to one of my guys on the dock that the inspector was bucking for warden, or something to that affect. I guess if you have eight guys in a boat you must be up to no good.

Oh....lost my port water pressure sensor for the ride home and had to limp on one engine back to Bremerton. Easy fix but I forgot to replenish my spare. Made for a slooooooow two and a half hour cruise. These sensors are a POS and hold me below 1500rpm when they fail.

[Watts-N-Shots]

Nope....no PS inspection sticker.

[bradvo]

Been hearing of boardings lately, by chance did they visually check out your sanitation over board discharge valve to see if it was in lock mode ?

[voyager]

Been hearing of boardings lately, by chance did they visually check out your sanitation over board discharge valve to see if it was in lock mode ?

I had mine inspected last Saturday. They visually looked at the valve actually went down in the aft stateroom and crawled into the cave to look. That was a first before they have always just asked. The inspector told me the coasties will be checking valves this year.

[2859er]

I had mine inspected last Saturday. They visually looked at the valve actually went down in the aft stateroom and crawled into the cave to look. That was a first before they have always just asked. The inspector told me the coasties will be checking valves this year.


I was wondering about that. I have no Y-valve. All of my waste goes into the holding tank, from there it is either pumped out at a pump out station, or I hit the macerator switch and it gets pumped out over the side. I suppose I could disconnect the power to the switch, so there would be no chance of an accidental discharge.<O:p</O:p
<O:p
Any suggestions? :?:<O:p</O:p

[Papa Charlie]

I was wondering about that. I have no Y-valve. All of my waste goes into the holding tank, from there it is either pumped out at a pump out station, or I hit the macerator switch and it gets pumped out over the side. I suppose I could disconnect the power to the switch, so there would be no chance of an accidental discharge.<O:p</O:p
<O:p
Any suggestions? :?:<O:p</O:p

I have removed the Y valve on my boat and for now the macerator is removed so no chance of spill, unless the boat sinks. But I plan to install another pump later but not the Y, like your boat is. Anyone know what the regs require in this situation. Most Macerator pumps I have seen don't have a valve on them and the only thing I have every heard about locking down was the Y valve. Now that you mention it, it does seem a little strange. One could engage the pump just as easily as open the Y valve.

[bradvo]

I was wondering about that. I have no Y-valve. All of my waste goes into the holding tank, from there it is either pumped out at a pump out station, or I hit the macerator switch and it gets pumped out over the side. I suppose I could disconnect the power to the switch, so there would be no chance of an accidental discharge.<O:p</O:p
<O:p
Any suggestions? :?:<O:p</O:p

My valve is a bugger to get to, I was thinking of adding a key on off switch to replace the toggle switch now in place. I still don't think it wouild pass but maybe I could show it could not work accidently.
I know others who have left there valves in the open position but took the handle off to show them it is not functional. Guess that would work until ya come across somebody who understands
ball valves.

[voyager]

The Y Valve controls the direction of the flow. If the lever is in the down position and locked in place ( in my case tie wrapped) then a pump station is the only way to empty the tank . If you have a macerator and no Y Valve you are going to have problems if boarded. They will not care if the pump is wired or not. They will assume you have a switch, fuse etc, that will enable it. My suggestion is to install a Y valve. They are not that expensive and if you are going to be cruising into BC they are really handy. Over board discharge is the only option in some places up there. They just do not have pump outs available, overboard discharge is legal.

[Randygh]

There is absolutely no excuse for the Coasties to be "heavy handed" unless they have reasonable suspicion a crime is afoot. I have a feeling they might have had some info regarding a suspicious vessel that matched yours.

[SomeSailor]

It's been explained that the dual switches on a macerator serve the same purpose as a Y-Valve. It constrains inadvertent overboard discharge. Many older boats were plumbed to pump directly over the side when you flushed. :(

[Play N Hookie II]

I have had no problem with the PS inspections with the dual switch system. Am I supposed to install a Y valve?

[2859er]

The Y Valve controls the direction of the flow. If the lever is in the down position and locked in place ( in my case tie wrapped) then a pump station is the only way to empty the tank . If you have a macerator and no Y Valve you are going to have problems if boarded. They will not care if the pump is wired or not. They will assume you have a switch, fuse etc, that will enable it. My suggestion is to install a Y valve. They are not that expensive and if you are going to be cruising into BC they are really handy. Over board discharge is the only option in some places up there. They just do not have pump outs available, overboard discharge is legal.

I hope not. You can't even access the lines, pump and tank on my boat without removing at least one panel, and you have to crawl way back in the mid cabin berth to do so. A Y- valve makes no sense on my boat the way it is plumbed.

I have read the CG regulations and they specifically require a Y-valve, but it seems that regulation was not written with the newer style of plumbing in mind many boats now have.

If I took the macerator label off of my accessory switch, there would be no way to tell at all if had one installed, unless they started removing panels. Maybe I will just remove the label.

[voyager]

I have had no problem with the PS inspections with the dual switch system. Am I supposed to install a Y valve?

I also have the duel switch's at the helm to activate the macerator. Still every time the PS inspect me they ask about the y valve. This is the first year they have actually checked it. I always believed the reg stated the y valve had to be locked down. But now that I am reading this and thinking about it, maybe it is BECAUSE I have a Y Valve. I actually replaced it last fall because of a clog. I might have been able to just take it out? But then what would I do when I run up into Canada, I need that valve. More specifically the women on my boat need that valve.

[Go Aweigh2452]

Of course I have never safety wired the valve... Maybe since the Coasties are checking, I should safety wire it for now... or at least have it in the off position and justify that since we travel off shore and go to Canadian waters...

So how much "fertilizer" went into the river yesterday and eventually into the Puget Sound???? Bet more than we can produce in a few lifetimes...

[Papa Charlie]

To my knowledge and the only way I have seen boats plumbed the Y valve controls whether the waste directly from the head will go to the tank or directly overboard. The macerator pump doesn't even work in that circuit. Macerators are either plumbed directly from the tank in a stand alone connection then to the pump then to an overboard discharge or from a T to the pump then to an overboard discharge. The T is usually the line that goes to the pump out connection on the deck.
If you remove the Y valve as i have described, then you simple eliminate the need to wire it down to prevent direct discharge from the head. To my knowledge the regs do not require a valve on the macerator. It may require a dual switch to prevent accidentially pumping the waste, which would make sense.

[Watts-N-Shots]

I did request that we forecast any further engine room inspections the third time I was asked to open my hydraulic hatch. Engine room checks included holding tank and piping, y valve, halon system in date, bilge pumps and oil spill containment (bucket, rags, etc). Topside was the typical PFDs (had a dozen), throw, horn, fire extinguishers, signage, lights, forward bilge (settled for my drain sump), flares, flags, documentation, etc.

Now I think about it.....how did I pass that?

[bradvo]

Mine does not have the T, it just has a seperate line to the tank if you want to pump out.
The other option is the macerate pump to a seacock valve located on the bottom of the hull, pretty simple really.
From my past experience Y valves are a PITA.

[bradvo]

I did request that we forecast any further engine room inspections the third time I was asked to open my hydraulic hatch. Engine room checks included holding tank and piping, y valve, halon system in date, bilge pumps and oil spill containment (bucket, rags, etc). Topside was the typical PFDs (had a dozen), throw, horn, fire extinguishers, signage, lights, forward bilge (settled for my drain sump), flares, flags, documentation, etc.

Now I think about it.....how did I pass that?

I always know where one throw cushion is but I have to look for the other, I just bought flares so good there.
What up with spill containment ? Is that just something you want or is that now required?

[Watts-N-Shots]

I always know where one throw cushion is but I have to look for the other, I just bought flares so good there.
What up with spill containment ? Is that just something you want or is that now required?

You know....I didn't ask. I had a bucket and roll of shop towls handy and he said "good enough".

[voyager]

To my knowledge and the only way I have seen boats plumbed the Y valve controls whether the waste directly from the head will go to the tank or directly overboard. The macerator pump doesn't even work in that circuit. Macerators are either plumbed directly from the tank in a stand alone connection then to the pump then to an overboard discharge or from a T to the pump then to an overboard discharge. The T is usually the line that goes to the pump out connection on the deck.
If you remove the Y valve as i have described, then you simple eliminate the need to wire it down to prevent direct discharge from the head. To my knowledge the regs do not require a valve on the macerator. It may require a dual switch to prevent accidentally pumping the waste, which would make sense.

I have not seen what you are describing. on mine the hose runs out of the tank through the macerator, ONE hose to the Y valve. Two hose's come off the Y valve, one to the pump out connection and one to the over board pump out. I was under the assumption that this was the normal route. Now if that is not how it works then why are the coasties so concerned about it? When I replaced my Y valve the only ones they sold had three hose connections. One hose from the tank, then it seperated to the pump out or the overboard. Maybe I am missing something but what you are discribing would take multiple connections, for a valve that has two settings?

[Go Aweigh2452]

I'll have to check my set up again but... my valve that I spoke of only has one hose coming from the pump to the valve and then to the outlet. No "Y" hook up. I have a hose that goes directly to the tank from the waste cap on the side of the boat that is also connected to the vent.

PO probably made that change when they installed the electric head?

[2859er]

I guess there is more than one way to plump the system. On mine I have one line from the head that goes to the tank. From the tank I have two lines. One goes to the pump out fitting on the deck, the other goes to the macreator and continues from there to the through hull fitting on the side of the boat. No Ys, no Ts.

All sealed up behind the foot of the mid cabin. No access without removing a number of screws on a panel.

[bradvo]

Yup and as long as it leaves the boat without clogs were all happy .

[1northernstar]

I was boarded two years ago. They asked to see my my Y valve and I told them I didn't have one, had removed it, and everything goes into the tank. They found that acceptable and didn't even want to look at it.

I do have a directional valve for waste coming out of the tank. One way goes to the pumpout, the other goes to the macerator. I don't have this valve secured, and don't feel I need to. In order for me to discharge overboard I would need three failures - the directional valve would need to fail and both switches for the macerator would need to fail (short). This situation is equivalent to a secured Y valve that would need the wire to fail, the Y valve to fail, and the switch for the macerator (normally a single switch).

Both of these configurations probably give a million in one chance of an accidental discharge overboard.

[Papa Charlie]

I went to West Marine's website, they have a help section. There are basically two methods to this. The first method where the Y valve is installed between the head and the tank is the one the CG gets up tight about. It is also the more common method of installation, or it use to be. Probably boats built in the mid to late 90's and newer probably have the second method. The second method is not of concrern to the CG. Although it probably should if they were to think about it.
I have a modified version of the second method on my boat. My tank has all the connections coming out of the top of the tank with suction tubes that run to the bottom. My tank has a port for suction discharge and another to feed the macerator, so I don't need to use a Y valve like they show in the picture. Since I already use a macerator at the head, my next pump will be a diaphram pump as they don't clock or jam and can run dry, unlike the macerators.

Holding Tank with Optional Overboard Discharge
In addition to the standard deck pump–out fitting, a Y–valve between the toilet and tank allows you to pump directly overboard when beyond the three–mile limit. In harbor, use the holding tank. Offshore, dump directly overboard. There are two serious drawbacks to this approach, however: The risk of accidental discharges (which is why some authorities frown on Y–valves upstream of the holding tank), and the inability to empty the holding tank at sea.

http://i42.tinypic.com/27zmb69.gif

Our Favorite Method: Holding Tank with Multiple Discharge Options
All of the waste is pumped into a holding tank, yet you have the option of pumping it overboard when legal and logical to do so. There’s no Y–valve between the toilet and tank to upset authorities. Inshore and inland, the tank is emptied via the deck pipe. Offshore, you can empty the tank yourself using a manual or electric pump. A Y–valve downstream of the tank allows you to choose between the two.

As with most any system, a clogged valve or hose can make for an ugly service job. And you run the risk of not being able to use the toilet until the system is freed. A Y–valve between the toilet and tank solves that potentially embarrassing predicament (go ahead, get out the cleaning bucket!), but again could get you cited by the potty patrol.

http://i41.tinypic.com/rlbyf6.gif

[bradvo]

Here is what I can add by my personal experience concerning the last paragraph , for almost half of my boating life I had Y valves, the other half , no Y valve. The second half has been less frustrating.

My own opinion as to why the GG asks about the Y valve is lack of knowlege about boat sanitation systems, nothing against them, just what some instructor has been reading out of a 20 year old book is my guess.
My boat was built in 93, before the Nav I had a 96 3988, no Y valve on it either.
By the way, I have had far more accidental discharges with my current boat by mistaken toggle switch on main panel, it is marked but them letters are small.
I really need to install my key switch, I have it .......somewhere.

[Papa Charlie]

I ment to remove that last paragraph. I took both the descriptions directly from WM.
I like the idea of replacing the switch at the helm with a keyed switch. That seems to be the most logical approach to this that I have heard. Thanks. I even think I have one in my electrical kit from when I use to build system control panels.

[bradvo]

Yeah, I should put that on my list also, maybe today I can look for the switch.

[Nehalennia]

I have the Vacuflush system with the holding tank that has a direct hose out of the tank, to the macerator and then seacock. Another hose is for pump outs.
Macerator to seacock hose
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o99/ToddOlason/Nehalennia%20when%20new%20to%20us%20and%20mods/BilgeShelfandstorage7-17-084-1.jpg
Seacock
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o99/ToddOlason/Nehalennia%20when%20new%20to%20us%20and%20mods/BilgeShelfandstorage7-17-083.jpg
I agree that the inspections are a little to Nazi search intimidating.
The inspections need to be more helpful is items are out of compliance. Upon a fire inspection in a business, if items are out of compliance the business owner has a certain period of time to correct this unless it imposes immediate danger.

[Nimh]

So how much "fertilizer" went into the river yesterday and eventually into the Puget Sound???? Bet more than we can produce in a few lifetimes...

And don't forget the 10 million gallons of sewage that spilled into Elliot Bay last December from the treatment plant. I don't recall anybody getting fined on that one. Odd.

We asked our PS instructor about compliance during our class this winter. He made no mention of our Y-valve setup, but did state the ball valve should be in the off position, the handle removed, and then zip-tied to the valve.

[Papa Charlie]

The biggest problem I have with all of this is inconsistancy. If you are going to establish a rule then teach your enforcers the rule and that is it. It can be like these guys make up this stuff or offer their interpetation of the rules.

[Play N Hookie II]

I still hate how clean your bilge is Todd. Showoff...lol

[Watts-N-Shots]

I still hate how clean your bilge is Todd. Showoff...lol

Yes, very clean, and I envy the room you have in that ER. I have to plan ahead just to turn myself around.

[Tedster]

I still hate how clean your bilge is Todd. Showoff...lol

No kidding, I think that is why he posted the pic!!

[Nehalennia]

No kidding, I think that is why he posted the pic!!

No but how often does a guy get to show off his seacock?

[Papa Charlie]

I hate to pick on Todd, but......Todd, do you polish the bilge like you do the outside of the hull.
I think you could actually eat off that bilge floor.

[Nehalennia]

I hate to pick on Todd, but......Todd, do you polish the bilge like you do the outside of the hull.
I think you could actually eat off that bilge floor.

I haven't applied any wax down there yet.....just Simple green and L-Bow-Greeze

[Papa Charlie]

I haven't applied any wax down there yet.....just Simple green and L-Bow-Greeze

What is scary is the "yet" part.

[Nehalennia]

What is scary is the "yet" part.
No I'm not that bad.

[bradvo]

Yeah Todd, that bilge looks great. If I was you and had the bilge I would be offended if them Copaties did not take a look at that. LOL

I'll put that on my list, been 5 years since I threw a coat of paint in my bilge and it shows.

[Nehalennia]

I just really like it clean so I can quickly see if I have any leaks or issues at a quick glance. It also makes it easier to work in the engine bay if you don't have to clean it up first before you want to do anything.

[Papa Charlie]

I can understand that, I just can't get at mine to do anything. I need some very, very, very small people to get into my ER and then I may not get them out.

[1northernstar]

I wonder if this has anything to do with the recent CG boardings and their excessive questioning
http://threesheetsnw.com/blog/archives/9133

[Fish-a-Palooza]

I find it difficult to believe an area Commanding officer would have that kind of direct impact on how boarding’s are conducted. Most likely the boat skipper or the senior enlisted dictates attitude, but who knows!

By the way I didn't see it answered but in addition to the Y-valve being turned in the direction of the tank it's supposed to be locked out in a manner so you don't have an accidental discharge.

[bradvo]

Has anybody ever heard of anyone caught being non-compliant concerning the sanitation system and what was the consequences concerning the fines ?
Most citations I hear are for not having enough life jackets for occupants aboard the boat.

As far as boardings , have to remember these guys have not seen much activity , now that the weather has improved more boats are venturing out. More targets to keep em busy, I do wish they would recognize were not the bad guys , the volume of fast boats increased from homeland security but a friendly wave to some guys going to a ball game or a family out for some family time would do wonders for PR and appreciation to the service they provide.

[Play N Hookie II]

I wonder if this may roll down hill from the new would be temporary captain. They may be trying to make a good showing. Or perhaps the lower grade officers are making a showing after seeing what happened to the CO. Makes sense. That type of shakeup could have far reaching impact.

[SomeSailor]

Neah. I doubt your boarding was in any way related to the Admiral being relieved. They probably just saw a nice boat, a couple of beer bottles and decided to work with you a bit to see if you were boating under the influence. These guys have a job to do, and everyone feels put out (me included) when told what to do. Especially in front of friends and family.