Dawn Dreamer

[SomeSailor]

Michael;

Was just reading through your website (very nice job btw) and found the upcoming portion of importation process to be very interesting.

Any news on that? I would imagine you'd get to see the worst of both countries beauracracy in action. Is there any limit to how long a Canadian flagged vessel can stay in a US port? I suppose it's pretty common in Pt Roberts, but do you have to clear customs as a Canadian there as well?

Very interesting idea. I've heard of boats being brought across the border, but never left on the other side and used like that. Your adventures in that whole situation would be a good read. Your boat in France is fantastic. Never been there, but what a neat idea.

[Dawn Dreamer]

The importation is a work-in-progress, awaiting a number of things, including:
- upgrading her safety equipment to meet the Canadian Coast Guard requirements (now completed);
- doing all the post-purchase work required to make her safe and comfortable (virtually complete); and
- waiting for George W to scuttle the US dollar a bit further (we have to pay 7% GST and 7% PST on the US$ cost of the boat at the exchange rate in effect the day we first land her in Canada).

The process is actually quite straight-forward. We phone ahead for Customs clearance with our Nexus cards and tell them we are landing a non-duty-paid Canadian registered vessel. They meet us at the designated float for an inspection and we have three business days to pay the 14% taxes. The nice thing is that I can use my Amex card and get 1.6 points per dollar, which will give me the equivalent of a business class trip to anywhere in North America.

There is no limit on the length of time a foreign-registered vessel can stay in US waters. There is, however, a requirement in Washington State for a permit if staying over 60 days. This Vessel Out of Country Registration, which is issued by the State of Washington's Dept of Licensing, costs $36.75, and is good for the life time of the vessel and is transferable on sale of the vessel. It allows the vessel to stay in Washington waters indefinitely.

[SomeSailor]

Really interesting process. I had given consideration to living in Canada after retiring from the military at one point, but the taxation was pretty dismal.

Waiting on the dollar to drop is pretty wise strategy too. I suspect that on a 14% tax, that difference will be worth the wait.

I wasn't sure how they treated you outside Canada, for such a long period. Would you be better to keep her on this side indefinitely then? Seems like you've got the best of both worlds in your current situation.

Am I reading this correct that you cannot bring her to Canada... even temporarily with paying inport tarriff then? Or can you do it, but only for less than 3 days?

I also use my Amex for everything I have over 285,000 miles accumulated that I've never used. One of these days... :(

[Dawn Dreamer]

Waiting on the dollar to drop is pretty wise strategy too. I suspect that on a 14% tax, that difference will be worth the wait.
Our timing on the purchase was great, I did the transfer from my CA$ account to my US$ account just as the dollar crested at 83%. A year earlier the boat would have cost us over $50,000 more. Thanks George. :D


Am I reading this correct that you cannot bring her to Canada... even temporarily with paying import tariff then? Or can you do it, but only for less than 3 days?
Yes, the first landing of any goods into Canada triggers all applicable taxes and duties.

[SomeSailor]

Thanks George. :D

Ironically, you Canadians start to sound more and more like the Europeans when it comes to talking about our politics. It's too bad your government is gonna clobber you so badly with all your silly social taxes hen you take the boat home the first time.

Are moorage rates comparible there in Canada? It seems like with a strong Canadian dollar, and our less costly operating expenses anmd taxation, you'd just leave it here? What if you never landed it in Canada, can you continue to document it there? Sounds like a much better deal.

The Australians have a similar deal for expatriated Americans. The first $75,000 of US income is waived, so you can live pretty nicely for very little impact. I have a few friends who live down there now.

[Dawn Dreamer]

It's too bad your government is gonna clobber you so badly with all your silly social taxes hen you take the boat home the first time.
We would have had to pay WA State taxes had we not had her deleted from USCG Documentation and placed in Canadian Ship Registry.


Are moorage rates comparable there in Canada? It seems like with a strong Canadian dollar, and our less costly operating expenses and taxation, you'd just leave it here?
Our annual moorage at Point Roberts is US$3,000 (CA$3,700). Nicely located public moorage for our 48 feet overall in Vancouver ranges from $4,896 to $9,000 in False Creek and in Coal Harbour it can be found for $6,240.

The idea of mooring at Point Roberts is to have quick and easy access to the Gulf Islands and the San Juans and also to have easy Customs clearance; the marina is a US Customs POE. Besides, Point Roberts Marina probably has some of the best security available, being surrounded by 5 square miles of land guarded by Homeland Security. :D

[3788sam]

Pt. Roberts is great marina. I've stopped for fuel and just to wait out the winds in the Georgia Straits a few times. Would love to see the club sometime!
You sure have a great place up there!

It's amazing how many Canadian registered boats there are at Point Roberts, Blaine, and Semiahmoo marinas

The interesting thing is that a foreign registered boat can stay in WA indefinitely for $37 USD but a boat registered in another US state that stays in WA over a certain amount of time (3 or 6 months) has to be re-registered in WA.

Raul

[SomeSailor]

That's what I found so interesting about Michaels situation. It sounds as though there's a pretty nice loophole in there. You can avoid WA tax, by saying you're going to Canada... you can avoid Canadian tax and Tarriffs, by saying you're staying in Washington.

It seems like Washington would say... OK... been here 90 days... you need to register here or get underway... :)

I suppose it's like the old "buy a boat in Oregon, register it there and then trailer it here to use it". They're now recording trailer tags coming across. If the registered owner turns out to be a Washington resident... they come and get ya. Same is working for hunting and fishing licenses between oregon and Washington. Folks would get both at resident rates, or fish only on one states license.

Lotsa little tricks out there.

[Dawn Dreamer]

It sounds as though there's a pretty nice loophole in there. You can avoid WA tax, by saying you're going to Canada... you can avoid Canadian tax and tariffs, by saying you're staying in Washington.
Actually, you can defer paying the Canadian taxes until a convenient time, such as favourable exchange rates, or when the kitty is topped-up again. But if you ever want to boat in Canada (and who doesn't? ;) ), the taxes will need to be paid.

[SomeSailor]

Like death and taxes I suppose... neither are unavoidable...

[Dawn Dreamer]

Well, we finally did it; we brought Dawn Dreamer into Canada and paid the taxes.

We had been watching as the US dollar began to weaken again at the end of June and as it continued downward through the summer, pushing the Canadian dollar back up over 84 cents last week. The timing was perfect; our slow refit, re-equip and re-decoration of Dawn Dreamer was complete and one of our favourite restaurateurs was opening NU, a new restaurant on Vancouver's False Creek waterfront, and we had been invited to the official opening reception on the 1st of September. The restaurant is in same building as the False Creek Yacht Club, with which we have reciprocal moorage benefits from Point Roberts.

Monday dawned clear and calm, and after a pleasant cruise with the flood tide around the banks, up the coast and into False Creek, we secured mid-afternoon alongside one of the catch off-loading floats at Fisherman's Wharf and phoned Customs. Four or five minutes on the phone reporting registration and hull numbers and other details of the boat and our landing declaration led to a wait of about twenty minutes for a pair of Customs officers to arrive. They came aboard, looked at our passports and Nexus cards and at the boat's dossier of documents and receipts, and issued us with a clearance number and instructions on where and how to pay the taxes. They were gone within two minutes, and we flashed-up and moved the boat across to the False Creek Yacht Club floats and secured alongside for the night.

On Tuesday morning, in a light drizzle, I walked up through Yaletown the two kilometres or so to the Revenue Canada offices and waited for about twenty minutes to be seen by an officer, who then matched-up my clearance number with a file and after a short flurry of two-finger typing, caused the computer to generate an invoice. I took this up to the Long Room on the 3rd floor and let my American Express Aeroplan card earn me enough points for a round-trip business class flight across Canada. Back downstairs with the receipted invoice, I was given stamped documents and the tax notation was changed in the computer file. Dawn Dreamer is now a legally landed vessel.

The restaurant opening was a splendid party, and it looks like another winner for Harry who already has two of Vancouver's perennial finest with RainCity Grill and C.

[Go Aweigh2452]

Congratulations... now we need to see all the pictures of all the new mods, etc...