dry rot in wood cored deck

[Numbknots]

Another project (needing repair pretty soon)

While replacing the windlas on my Tolly I decided to also replace/repair a intermittent foot switch. I discovered that the PO had not properly prepaired the hole and bedded the switch in the deck to prevent water water intrusion.

I tapped around with a hammer and it appears that the coring (wood) is rotten about 3-4 inches in all directions from the opening? Obviously this is not absolute as I have not attempted to dig it out.

I temporarily bedded the switch in 4000 sealant to prevent further water intrusion. I am thinking I should drill some small holes in the glass from underneath to let the moisture be exposed to air and (dry)???

Question: do I need to cut away the fibreglass from underneath (fairly easily accessable through the chain locker) to remove "all" rotted wood and then somehow glass in a new piece of wood and then patch the underdeck glass and re-drill the fixture hole??

Thanks in advance from you "boatwrights" out there.

Tim

[mkronmal]

You need to do exactly that! Cut away the glass to expose to outside of the rot. Remove the wood and add some new coring and close it all up. You also will want to let it sit with the rot removed before you close it up make sure things are good and dry.

I might even recommend having a good surveyor check things out before beginning work. No sense not catching everything.

[heymagic]

Small areas can be dug out and injected or filled with thickened epoxy. 3 to 4 inches in diameter is getting pretty big to attempt that . Cutting the bottom and replacing the coring is easy and the proper way to do it. Drill a bunch of small holes radiating outward to check for the extent of the moisture and then let dry for a while . I have your windlass tool, when are you going to be at the boat again ?

PS...it is a pretty common Tolly complaint of saturated foredecks , your's aint the only one.

[Numbknots]

Mkronmal,

That surely confirms what I thought. I plan on drilling some "airing out holes next time up to the boat. For sure I hope to stop the bleeding.

I gotta say I have little faith in 'surveyors' This didn't just happen and as Gene said and I have come to know this is a fairly common area of damage on Tolly's and other wood cored boats.

So Gene, do you just 'bed the wood into the upper layer of glass with I assume epoxy resin when you make the repair? What kind of wood do you use? Should I hire someone with 'experience' or tackle it myself? As you know I am a mechnic and a I am a fair carpenter but for sure not a fibreglass guy. the good part is the area is above the Chain locker and easily accessable as long as the damage doesn't extend to far aft?

The brief time I spent with a ball peen hammer suggests that it is fairly localized around the one poorly installed foot switch.

(darn I sure have a pretty new Maxwell windlas though. Thanks for hanging on to the "specialty tool" I will call you when I come your way and we will hook up. ( I will problably pull the old Maxwell apart and remove the shim we installed and re-assemble and put it up for sale, as I am convinced it is in (other then that) in quite good shape.

I may be up on Thursday, if I can find a couple of guys that want to go fishing and hang out on a boat for a couple of Days? (Beats the heck out of working on a "house for sale"

Tim

[heymagic]

You can easily do the repair, heck I can even help !! Just stuff me in the anchor locker...

It really is as easy as you say, chop, cut , rebuild. Even easier when the finished area is out of site. I've still got epoxy and plywood left from working on my lil' trawler .

[Numbknots]

Gene,

Thanks a lot for the offer, I will take you up on it, soon after Labor day. I will drill some holes underneath for drying purposes and prepare the "place for you to crawl into. (really there is more room in there then the area you were last in??? It is clean, dry and Missy can sit in the salon, fix us Iced tea and laugh at us till it hurts, I will bring the camera this time!!

Tim

[bradvo]

Tim, did you ever tackle this? I have found a soft spot on my upper aft deck I need to attend to at some point.
Brad

[Numbknots]

Brad,

I have not fixed the problem yet, however I have done some investigation on "how to". One of the ol timers at WM who says he has worked with fiber glass by the barrel, told me that it was un necessary to try to replace the "core wood" while making the repair. He said to find the extent of the "rot" and dig it all out, inject epoxy (or if accessable seal off the edge of the damage and then mix up micro filler with epoxy to the consistancy of peanut butter and build it up to replace the wood that was removed, glass in the bottom (if cut out) and then redrill the hole (in my case the windlass foot switch)

How big an area did you find? seams usually water is getting into the core throug "loose screws" attaching fittings/trim? Unfortunately I have not had enough time to get up and work on the boat!!! I will have to let some things go till next spring and then really go to work on it with earnest.

(sure would be nice to be able to find and afford inside moorage)

Tim

PS: West Systems online has a lot of information on how to use their products, and as well they have video/CD/ books on the subject

[bradvo]

Not sure of the size yet, at least a foot or better. i seen some seperating on our salon ceiling panel, really hard to notice but there. So went topside and walk in an area that is not stepped on much and found it to be a bit mushy.
More then likely I will be putting this off also til spring- i did run some extra caulking around some stantion footings that i suspect have let the water in at.
My guess this will spread over time if not corrected, so sooner or later I need to get r done. was just thinking of you r post on what you found and wondred or not if ya had the time to tackle it, then was going to ask the degree of difficulty you thought it was.
More then likely i will be trying this one myself, so I will read up on it sometime this winter.
take care
brad

[Numbknots]

Brad,

From what I am discovering the good part is fiber glass work is not all that difficult, (just a messy PNA) Also if you can get to the problem area from "underneath" so you don't have to cut into the 'gelcoat' finish then the work involved is alot less. (haven't seen how the headliner/finish work on the Navigator is attached?)

What P@#$&s me off is that a quality surveyer should have picked up these "typpical problem areas" Seems that a to many marine surveyors are akin to the residential home inspectors?

One of the things that I will be looking for when deciding on a "future boat" will be HOW MANY PENETRATIONS ARE THERE INTO THE "CORED" AREAS and how are they done.

I am discovering that the New top of the line yachts are using bedded thru bolts for stanchion mounting (not multi drilled bases that rely on bedding of 'wood screws' through the glass that tend to loosen up over time (especially stanchions) that get leaned on "duh".

Also many of the boats have water that gets inside the SS tubing and then runs down insid the tubing and or collects at the bases that are sometimes (themselves) bedded to the deck, making it impossible for water to get out so over time it wicks its way vertically through a looseded screw into the core material.

Oh well, I guess that is what we have to look forward to in our "golden years".

My Admirals comments last week were "for what we just spent on this boat shouldn't the water stay out of the boat"?

Tim

[bradvo]

I hear ya on the water staying out, I have fixed a couple leaks to date. But even my brand new Bayliner 2452 leaked. But since at that time I was under cover I never had it fixed. But I guess somebody else had to do it...

i will probably not be going in from underneath . Fortunately the area is covered with a carpet and has a non skid surface below that - so a good looking finish will not be all that important, although i will do my best . When i get done with removing the rot I will epoxy or glass then paint a non skid finish back over and call it done.
I have a job that still needs to be done by a good fiberglass guy that owes me, so I thought maybe when the day comes I would ask his advice also.
I can't blame a surveyor because I did my own. So there are people out there who spend over 300 k on a boat without the advice of a surveyor.
I am one, so far I think I did pretty good- the only one who messed things up on the boat after the deal was closed was me.
:roll:
Brad

But I should mention more about the surveying part- the boat was bought by the owner of a larger boat he was selling. So he took the boat that I bought in on a trade. before taking the boat in he had a survey done by a certified surveyor who pointed some small problems out, the soft spot was not one of them, nor the leaks i already fixed.
My wife and I chose not to have the boat surveyed again as the survey was still under a year old.
the owner of the boat I bought ( the original ) who made the trade never did his own work.
So I contacted the business who did his mechanical, also the place that did much of his rigging and bottom painting for records- plus i was given all work records by the owner to sift through.
I felt ok with this.
figured i would rather dump the grand into the boat instead of another surveyors pocket.

[SomeSailor]

The best part about a surveyor is they are bonded and most good ones are insured against errors and omissions (E&O). If you could prove rot or structural damage in a reasonable period later... you'd have a chance to get it repaired on someone elses dime.

[Numbknots]

SS,

You should read the "disclaimers" Unless the surveyor says he "sounded" all the boat and then certified it as not having any soft spots, you might have something?

From what I have been reading, those that tried to go back on the surveyer ended up in a legal battle with a Insurance company that covered the surveyor (deep pockets)

I know there are some good surveyors out there, and then there are some that aren't.

If a person doesn't like working on stuff, he probably shouldn't own more then he can afford to farm out>

Tim

[SomeSailor]

My guess is an E&O insurer would pay out a claim pretty quickly.

I think it would also be a great question to ask a potential surveyor. If he knew the answer, he'd be ahead in my books. Obviously, you've discovered this soft spot on your own... I would have thought a surveyor would have been able to as well.

This is especially true of a surveyor with some years under his belt. Most problems in boat contruction and structural issues are systemic, and will carry from one year to the next until they either change a design or fix the problem (one will cause the other in most cases I'd bet).

If you've got a soft area around that windlass... you can bet 50% of the other Carvers of that vintage do too.

[Numbknots]

SS,

You are right, they should, and yes I do believe that the surveyor in my case should have picked up this and several other things (like a crack in a muffler, exhaust elbow, deteriorated life vests, as well as the dry rot around the "windlass foot swithces.

You are also right that all manufactures of MV have design specific challenge areas and are places that follow the fleet. Some are well known and some not so prevelant.

That is why we have forums like this and guys like Gene and others that have a wealth of knowledge and "fix it" experience.

In the past couple of years the internet has offered me a un measurable wealth of information and now the challenge is just finding the time to utilize it!

Tim

[sunkertreasure]

I suggest you go to epoxyproducts.com to get some great info on epoxies, I have used at least 10 gallons repairing my boat, and fabricating new parts. They even have epoxies that work underwater. Oh, and did I mention the prices are much better than WM. The epoxies are much easier to work with than the ones you can find on local shelves. Check out the polyester thickener (if they still have it), it makes the epoxy into a dripless paste and adds flexibility. Worked for me when I had to repair coring in the overhead.

[SomeSailor]

What kindof boat are ya fixin up?

[sunkertreasure]

My girlfreind, as my wife refers to it is a 1977 28' Glasply short cabin. I bought it at auction 7? years ago. It was one of several hundred boats that sunk when the Edmonds marina sank due to a record snow fall. Gutted the boat and started over. New cabin interior, wiring, tanks, diesel engines, trannies and after the log, new shafts and props. Still a work in progress, but almost 500 hours on the mains. I like to fish.

[SomeSailor]

Sounds like a labor of love for sure. Got a digital camera? We love looking at work pics. (beats doing the work I suppose) :D