Local diesel prices.

[linedog]

Diesel at Narrows marina, $3.24 at Des Moines, $2.93 at Breakwater, $2.57 guess where I'm going this afternoon? Breakwater will also give a $0.04 discount with cash, check or a Chevron card. A few phone calls and I save a hundred bucks. Maybe I'll have some wings with Brad afterall. . . maybe not. Meow. :oops:

[Go Aweigh2452]

Man that bites... I just bought 400 gals #2 heating oil for $2.46/gal for the home. Talk about getting gouged! Last week had I bought then, it was almost $3/gal... Maybe I ought to buy street diesel, collect the road tax rebate and I'd be ahead big time!

[SomeSailor]

I just paid $2.91 for diesel earlier this week. Gonna fill up again this weekend before Rita gets out of the bag.

Heating is a fun time for us. We have two pellet stoves here. Total cost to heat the house is 3,000 pounds of pellets for the year. Just bought them last week and stacked them out in the garage. Total cost: $225.00 Hopefully the price of fuel oil and gas will go even higher and at least one of my ideas is panning out. Diesel sure is beating me up from where it was when I bought the truck. Even at 22 miles/gal it's not the most cost effective vehicle out there anymore.

:(

[Go Aweigh2452]

yeah, the pellets heat you up at least three times too..

1. buy them and stack them
2. bring them inside and burn them
3. dump the ash...

When we lived in ME, we use to buy 8 cord of 8 ft hardwood and our neighbors the same and then we'd rent a splitter...

One day we'd cut one houses 8ft into 20" and the girls would "ride" the splitter and we'd drop the wood in the splitter as they hit the hydraulic ram. Boy they just loved that vibration... lol...

Next day, same procedure, other house. Great fun but dangerous toward the end of the day with the splitter haulin but it caught my gloves on more than one occasion...

then I got older and decided, oil is easier, and less heating of the body IE. add at least three steps to the above as in... cut it, split it and stack it..

[SomeSailor]

yeah, the pellets heat you up at least three times too..

1. buy them and stack them
2. bring them inside and burn them
3. dump the ash...



It's nothing like wood though. It burns 99.5% or better efficient. It'll make maybe a cup of ash a week. The pellet autofeed and they both hold two bags which is enough to heat the house for 3 days. You get all the cool fireplace features (radiant heat, great fire, smell), without all the fuss. As far as buying them. They deliver them and stack them in for ya. Only eats up an area against one wall anyhow.

Much better than paying a $1000 for fuel oil. :) Thats 4 years worth of heating fuel for pellets and it's a renewable fuel.

[Go Aweigh2452]

FWIW, I normally fill up with 835 gals every 15-18 months (all I can fit in the 1000 gal tank due to tilt). therefore my 400 gals will last ~ 7-9 months... so I burn about $125/month at today's rate and that heats three stories or 3200 sq ft of living area. So I know I do real good compared to other forms of heat plus no pellet/wood smell... I have hot water baseboard or as they call it out here, "radiate" so they can charge more... Its quiet, actually its silent... doesn't blow dust all over the place and won't have build up of mildew in the air ducts cause there are none... and doesn't take up ~15 sq ft of living or family room plus have a chimney to stare at.. plus the whole house can be kept the same temp w/o heat burn in the pellet room and frozen nose hair in the far side of the house... down side... no A/C throughout the house but in WA, I don't need it... When I do, I throw in a window A/C unit. Also, no dust and no blowing air means less hassle with allergies...

hot water baseboard can actually save 30% of home heating costs every year. First, hot water baseboard distributes heat more efficiently. Second, you can set your thermostat 2° or 3° lower than with a hot air ducted system and still be comfortable. Baseboard introduces convected and radiant heat at floor level, does not create drafts that cool your skin and avoids excessive, wasteful stratification of air (hot near the ceiling, cold at your feet). Baseboard is also easy to zone so you can vary the heat level from one space to another and choose not to heat unused rooms. I have 4 zones in my home so I can keep the rooms warm I tend to "live in" and keep the ones I seldom use, cooler. It only cost about 1% more to install over air ducts when we built the house.

[SomeSailor]

It's OK Doug... you don't have to convince me that buying $2.50/gal heating oil is a good deal. :D

I'll stick to my 100% renewable resource... efficient pellet stoves. All else fails I can always use the central heat and the furnace as well.

Besides... your math is a bit skewed. 400 gallons lasting 7 months is 57 gallons a month. At $2.46 a gallon, that's $140.00 a month.

$150 buys a ton of pellet fuel that'll last 120 days (bag every thrid day) to heat here. That's more than normal but Diane keeps the downstairs toasty all day for the kids.

If you've never seen pellet fuel in action, it's the coolest heating source. You get all the coolness of a fireplace (they actually sit in our fire boxes) with the economy and cleanliness of gas or electric. No outside air, or dust blow through as the combustion process takes place in a catalytic chamber behind glass. The entire combustion uses outside air, and only heat is transferred through the glass and heat transfer tubes.

We liked the one the house had so much, we bought a second the next year. VERY nice setup (IMO) and not dependent on world affairs to heat our home.

[Randygh]

Douglas County PUD is one of the lowest priced electricity providers in the nation, 2.9 cents per kilowatt hour so our electric furnace and appliances are pretty inexpensive to operate.

Our house is good size and I don't like the idea of heating the entire house at night when we are in the kitchen-family room area. Our small Vermont Casting wood stove is very efficient and heats the area extremely well. When we remodeled I installed a large cold air return into the ceiling right above the stove. After dinner, I turn down the electric heat, turn on the furnace fan and crank up the wood stove. That little stove almost heats the entire house when the furnace fan circulates the air.

My brother/sister inlaw heat their home in Yakima with a pellet stove. Pretty nifty heating system. Only draw back is they can't run it when the power is off.

[SomeSailor]

I fixed the no-electricity issue by taking putting an old UPS I had laying around it the fireplace with the stove. It stays at outside temps in there and the thing is sitting there charging the whole time just waiting for the power to drop offline. You still need to keep that auger and blower going. :)

I love the idea of them being completely renewable resources. I'm not a real green-minded person but the idea of not heating on dinasaur juice and still not polluting is pretty cool. Also, the burn bans don't affect us with pellets like they would with a fireplace.

There's something real cool about waking up smelling the remnants of a fire gone cold too. We've got central electric heating with forced air and all.. but I don't like the smell or feel of it myself.

[Roel Jansen]

I wondered how you heated your houses for some time. We as a very small country with no rocky soil have an extend network of pipes under the ground to use the natural gas that's found in the Northern provinces and is exported to other European countries on the main land. So the house is totally heated by a central Earth gas stove. Those stove also provide our hot water. Only far from villages houses have no connection the the network and use Butane or oil tanks. Wood is only used in open fires as we have in the living room.

[Numbknots]

While in Alaska for 40+ years we heated with wood, some cold winters -40-50 below zero, we would use 7-9 cords a year. Only thing I can say is that that black spruce split better when frozen. We started with a barrel stove (most ineffeciant) heat source known to man! We gradually moved up to a cast wood stove. The kitchen stove was also wood, (had to cut the stuff into 10 inch rounds. So I must say I am not trilled to burn wood anymore.

I like the idea of pellets, (aren't they a little dusty when pouring into the hopper?? the new house I have has an "alcove" for a stove and the wife would really like a "real fire". SS, what brand pellet stove do you have so I can check them out?

My Mother in-law has a gas stove that really heats up the place and is on a thermostat and the fire really looks real and it is "mess free" and the fan is also quite.

(As for the boat, it would feel good to "get to buy fuel" (dang I will be glad when the (second) house sells!

Tim

[heymagic]

When our house was built it had Cadet wall heaters. They are the new style with no recalls...so far. They actually are cheap to run but I hear the fans and they have zone thermostats . If you're not careful one will stay on and try to heat the whole house. Last year we installed a propane fireplace, no natural gas close yet. It costs about the same as electricity but feels warmer, looks nice and in power outages I can still heat.

I'm sure they've made improvements but my brother had a hopper screw fail and a fire inside the hopper, the neighbors pellet stove caught fire and nearly burned the house down...damned fast responding fire dept.... :cry: Someone I know fell against a pellet stove and got burned pretty bad also.

[SomeSailor]

I like the idea of pellets, (aren't they a little dusty when pouring into the hopper?? the new house I have has an "alcove" for a stove and the wife would really like a "real fire". SS, what brand pellet stove do you have so I can check them out?

Ours are Whitfields, and are actually fireplace inserts rather than the free-standing units some think of. Even the auger were to stop, it would simply go out. Even if you could figure out a way to get the pellet hopper to catch on fire (no way really as there is no air), but if you could, it would only just burn and send the smoke up the existing chimney flues. The whole thing protrudes only a few inches further that the existing fireplace.

We really like ours. Never used one before we bought this house, but now have the two. Very inexpensive, real wood flame and renewable. It does require enough electricity to run the fans (has a combustion chamber fan, and a distribution fan) and an auger, but an old UPS will run them for hours, and I also have a genset.

The pellets aren't dusty at all. They're very tightly pressed wood that looks a lot like rabbit food. I bring up a between both stoves every couple of days. Like I said... not a tree hugging guy or anything, but I do like the idea of burning renewable fuel... especially when it's this cheap. They also make a pellet furnace that I'd love to buy as well.

Here's a pic of the ones we have:

http://www.stovesdirect.com/images/stoves/newoptima3i.jpg

[heymagic]

Pellet furnace ...that might be an option. We have a 6ft crawl space..just shy of a daylight basement. The water heater and filtration system are down there. A pellet furnace might be an option. Ducting would be a snap !

[SomeSailor]

They're sweet. Kindof pricey though. They start at around $5,000 for the auto-start units. With the price of natural gas skyrocketing, and fuel oil right behind it... it's a pretty attractive option.

The one I saw, ties right into your existing furnace ducting. You then still have the original heat as well as the alternative fueled pellet furnace.

They even make pellet BBQs that can burn hickory, oak or mesquite mix pellets. They cook over embers like an open fire and smoke as well. Pretty nice gizmo.

[Go Aweigh2452]

They start at around $5,000 for the auto-start units

My entire hot water baseboard heating system was less than that when we built this house... and that's with four zones... and no lugging around pellets... and, yes, I can still have heat with power outages... I too have a genset for the house...


They start at around $5,000 for the auto-start units

that's over 2000 gals of heating oil at todays price or almost 3.5 years of heating my home... oh yeah, add cost of the pellets... I think I'll stick to dino for now...

BTW, the cost of heating oil/gal I quoted the other day was for 400 gals up to 600 @ $2.46/gal. I normally buy over 800 which is .40 per gal cheaper...

It was just three years ago my cost for heating oil was .69/gal at the 800 gal rate. You can not predict the future so I am still WAYYYY ahead on heating my home and staying 'comfy'. Lea likes it at 70 while we are up. On vacations, we program the system to 60 during the day and 55 at night.

[bradvo]

Just wish my wife would put on a sweater and a blanket. She likes the house at 72. natural gas is getting expensive.
If it were just me 68 would be fine.
Brad
Just wish I could have put the diesel heater in the boat this year.

[SomeSailor]

My entire hot water baseboard heating system was less than that when we built this house...

I think you have a wonderful system there Doug. Enjoy it.


It was just three years ago my cost for heating oil was .69/gal at the 800 gal rate. You can not predict the future so I am still WAYYYY ahead on heating my home and staying 'comfy'.

Good for you. Read up on Hubbert's Peak Theory next time you get a few free moments.

I'm not saying you don't have a wonderful system there Doug. No ones tryin' to **** on your parade. You started the thread... complaining about the cost of fuel oil. I just replied that I don't have to worry about it here... that's all. I like alternative fuel heating and am glad we have it as an option here. It's as simple as that.

[linedog]

Back tp my thread, I just filled up putting in 117 gallons at $2.53 a gallon saw the gas price at $3.20 a gallon, ouch.

[3788sam]

Port of Everett Sunday 9/25 diesel 3.64- gas 3.15

[bradvo]

You got to be kidding, 3.64 for diesel, they should be tossed in jail
Brad

[3788sam]

My bad $2.64
It's a Monday

[linedog]

When I was filling up at Breakwater the guy was telling me that he was getting a shipment in on Monday and was expecting the prices to jump $0.20 a gallon.

[dumluck53]

anyone know what the price is/was at breakwater?

[linedog]

$2.53 for diesel on Sunday, but going up their number is 253-752-6663.

[dumluck53]

thanks for the info!

[Numbknots]

SS,

I went to the Whitefield site, and those units look pretty sweet! How quite are the fan's? I plan on having a look at them next time I get a break. The Admiral would really like me to fill the "alcove" that was made for one in our Family room. Can you recall what you paid for the whole kit and kabootal )including pipe??

Thanks,

Tim

[SomeSailor]

The one upstairs was $3495 installed. It was in the house when we bought it, but I have all the receipts. The one downstairs, we picked up out of the Little Nickle for only $250. The gal selling it was going to gas in her neighborhood. It was an odd blue color, but it's a matching stove black now.

The only real noise they make is the blower that moves the air into the room. The rest os behind the hopper and inside the firebox. The only real noise you hear is the occasional pellets dropping in and the auger turning every few seconds. Ours is in the living room and we watch TV right beside it and never hear it.

They are pretty cool stoves. Someday, I'm gonna have a pellet furnace for sure. :)

[Numbknots]

SS,

Thanks for the info. Has anyone come up with a "insert" pellet stove that doesn't stick out into the room (more like a gas fireplace) would need the hopper remoted or opening flush to the front?

We have an alcove and a more formal fireplace in the living room.

Thanks,

Tim

[Tedster]

This summer we spent major bucks on energy efficient windows, front door, sliding patio door, and new roof. I guess I'm feeling a little better about the money spent if this thing gets out of hand. :D

[Numbknots]

Ted,

I thinks SS and I are both saving to "stay unemployed"

Tim

[SomeSailor]

if this thing gets out of hand.

He said IF.

It's more like WHEN. I like the idea I can be off the grid if needed here. We'll never run out of pellet fuel in this world. Saw dust sells for $8 a ton. :D

[Numbknots]

Ok I bit,

I am typing on my Dell 600m EVDO connected laptop in the living room infront of our new Whitefield Optima 111 Free Standing pellet stove. I still have to wire in new 110 receptacle for the motor, but it is really nice. The flame is clean, the fan is not to loud and the Admiral is cozy and happy! (might have to put a smaller unit on the Boat??) I paid $154.00 a ton for the pellets (didn't look very hard) as the dealer was only a couple of miles away and it was convienent.

SS---- Thanks for the info in helping make the choice. We will be adjusting the thermostat on our heat pump and running the summer cooling fan 24/7 in conjunction with the ceiling fans it should really make heating more effecient (if not at least more "homey")

Tim

[SomeSailor]

If you ever make it up to Mt Vernon... there's a stove shop there that has the COOLEST little pellet stoves that I always thought would look great on a boat. They're only about 10" in diameter and sort of octogon shaped glass (look like little lighthouses).

Glad you like your stove. We haven't lit ours this year... but its coming. It's a nice warm fire that definitely is inexpensive.