What it means to Immigrate to America

[Numbknots]

I got this from a friend of mine and thought you all would enjoy it?

Tim

Boy has politics changed over the years!

This shows how far we have gone astray in our thinking about immigrants:


"In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

We need a Teddy Roosevelt today.........

[bradvo]

YUP

[Tedster]

I think it is that language thing that bothers me to most. I even say out loud "you are an American we speak English here" many times. Ted :roll:

[Numbknots]

Ted,

It does bother me somewhat to when "after" hearing an immigrant and or foreign "visitor" negociate with and american supplier/vendor, that they turn to a friend or companion and talk away in thier "native" language. More then once I have been with a buddy (fellow American) and after we discussed a matter "openly" in ENGLISH, the foreigner spoke up in 'good' engish to argue with us????

I fully appreciate how difficult it must be to move over to this country and learn the language and customs of our/their new home. I also know that those that truly appreciate the "gift" they have been given in coming here, learn very quickly and are very quickly adpapted to the "new culture". To those I aplaud and with open arms welcome them as equals.

Tim

[bradvo]

ahhhh screw this, I'm tired of trying to be politically correct- i would just as soon shut our borders down and let them all go to France. Not only do they not want to speak english they can't drive worth a ****. Besides that our banks and most service business's just help them along with giving options to another language so buisness continues as usual, all because there is a buck to be made. Start a lottery, if they get lucky they can enter. :x this little emoticon- looks a bit oriental, ya think :)
bah humbug

[Go Aweigh2452]

I often wonder why we do what we do for non English speaking people. Why are many road signs in both Spanish and English? For that matter, why do I have to go through a recorded message when I call a business and have to choose between English and Spanish? Same holds true for ATM machines, grocery store self check outs, etc. How about at the airport when they announce your car will be towed in both English and Spanish? I think it stinks that I HAVE TO MAKE THE CHOICE! I wish my school made it mandatory for ESL (English second language) kids to take ESL class but they do not. This only makes my job harder trying to teach them at the expense of not teaching the other 98%. They (2%) even "qualify" for grade leniency and special needs programs that English speaking kids are not eligible for.

Another thing, why do I have to view the FBI warning in two languages? The second one being French of all possibilities!

Some day some ethnic group is going to sue to have their language also on signs on the road and at Govt businesses.

OK, I'm done now.. rant over (I think)...

[bradvo]

I often wonder why we do what we do for non English speaking people.

Money,Money Money, and it grew and grew till all service type business had to do it so they could get a piece of the buck also. Can't imagine a company saying we just wanted them to feel at home.????
Brad

[Tedster]

Hey this is great we all agree on this one! Ted :lol:

[bradvo]

Everynow and then I get the Archie Bunker syndrome, seems more then not lately.
Brad

[Go Aweigh2452]

Yeah, my ADM accuses me of turning into my father... lol SO what is wrong with that I ask her??? Rolling eyes and a quick turn about is all I ever get in response!!!

[Randygh]

In my opinion, illegal migration of foreign peoples into this country is one area of Pres. Bush's administration that has been extremely mishandled. Hell, if the US really wanted to close the border to illegal movement, the terrestrial boundaries could be razor-wired and land-mined. This hasn't, and won't be done because there is too much money to be made by cheap labor. We all benefit from the price of cheap labor for goods and services, regardless if production is within or outside our country. Unfortunately our education, social service and law enforcement agencies spend a large amount of their budgets related to illegal migrants. At least that is the way it is here in north central Washington.

[dumluck53]

I agree with everything Teddy R. said. I like the quote. However, who is going to pick our lettuce and fruit? Americans don't want to do it...too much easy money is made off of welfare...

I think we need a worker's policy that will enable cheap labor into the country to pick it then give 'em a ticket to go back home. If they want to stay then get citizenship, learn the lingo and act like an American.

I jest don't wanna have ta pick my own veggies....

[bradvo]

Tony, I wonder though if we have not stepped on our Kids by allowing this to go on. When i was young I would be able to pick the strawberries, rasberries, take on a paper route for money. It also taught me responsibilities in a small way.
Now look , who has those jobs? I think it would do us good to throw our Kids back into some of this and teach them a work ethic again. Give them a crotchety old field boss :)
Brad
PS- I know some jobs are not for the kids, but you get my drift.

[Go Aweigh2452]

Yeah, I'll bet most of us had a paper route and that was a good thing. A lot can be said about doing your own paper route... Now, adults do it as a real job inmost places... not good... fast food service industry is not the best way to learn how to handle money (not like the old paper route). No reason to run a talley and no reason to do your own math because the kids today depend on the manager doing the right thing on their paycheck.

[Tedster]

Most routes these days the mommy or daddy's drive the kido's around or they are the ones that end up doing it in the long run. Now that is teaching them 'eh! Ted

[Randygh]

Local orchardists absolutely depend on Hispanic workers. Come harvest season, you'll be hard pressed to find a white person with a picking bag or bucket. Today's youth don't know the hard work of yesteryears Okies, Arkies or todays Hispanic workers. When I was in high school I worked with Hispanics in the hops and orchards. Very few of today's high school white students know how hard that work truly is.

[dumluck53]

I picked strawberries in Nisqually and I delivered newspapers. I pumped ethyl (gas) too. (A little gas station humour there!)

Brad, do ya really think our kids would pick berries? Hell no. Most of 'em won't. Too demeaning. Parents won't let them. Parents worry it's unsafe and it may be these days due to the people you're working alongside with. Plus, kids these days are too affluent. No incentive to go out and work. That isn't all of the kids but, I believe, the majority.

Doug, I disagree that fast food isn't a good place to learn how to work. It's a fast paced job with multi-tasking. If ya get a good boss that makes you work then you can learn real fast. I've had lots of high schoolers work for me--I'm real friendly and I'm a nice fellow but when you're on my payroll you're gonna WORK. I may holler at ya and I may even cuss a little but when it's all said and done my kids come back and tell me they appreciated working for me because I taught them how to WORK and I taught them about customer service and personal responsibility.

[bradvo]

My first and only job in fast food was at Skippers. I worked unitl closing which was at ten PM . We then had to stay over and clean the place up which always took about an hour and a half . We only got paid up until Ten. Like to see them try that one today.
But it put gas and tires on the ol Fairlane 500.
My next job as a teenager was making Sail Boats- Anyone remember Clark Boat company? The boats were called San Jauns- at the time I was there the bread and butter was the San Jaun 21 and 24 footers. I used to rig the topsides then attached deck to Hulls then add rub rail, I also would help to install the 1 ton Keels on the 24s. Did Fiberglass work in the molds with chopper guns and roll out of hull after cure. Then the grinder part, yuk.
I recall one time I did not get a cleat tight, got my butt reemed a good one. Funny how ya remember the ass chewings when you were young, but the ones in later years just roll off :lol:
Brad

[Go Aweigh2452]

Tony, I only suggested that having a paper route made you learn how to work on a ledger and really 'see' where the money was and who owed you what amount. That I feel strongly leads many to know how important a check book is... Not that fast food is not a good place to learn the value of work, I think that is important, just no learning curve doing your own payroll which translates into doing it when your all grown up.

I remember how long it took to save for my first 3 speed racing bike. I can even find the house I bought it from back in the 60's... thats the kind of impression saving and working hard on your own (paper route or picking berries) does verses today's youth that want the 3 speed bike yesterday and unfortunately, they whine enough to actually get it from their folks until the folks give in... (I see this a lot at school and not suggesting everyone is this way, just seems more prevelant now) I know you, Tony, well enough to know you and I would both be knocked around if we ever whined to our dad's!

[SomeSailor]

Brad, do ya really think our kids would pick berries? Hell no. Most of 'em won't. Too demeaning. Parents won't let them. Parents worry it's unsafe and it may be these days due to the people you're working alongside with. Plus, kids these days are too affluent. No incentive to go out and work. That isn't all of the kids but, I believe, the majority.

My secretary in my last job tried that with her daughter. She lasted all of two days at the Berry Farm. First day she quit picking... the second day she called the office in tears for her to come get her. In the end, she (secretary) decided it wasn't "worth the effort" to drive her kid all the way out there (5 miles) and would be easier just to giver her the money she wanted. Besides... no daughter of hers would be picking berries... :(

[bradvo]

I only suggested that having a paper route made you learn how to work on a ledger and really 'see' where the money was and who owed you what amount. That I feel strongly leads many to know how important a check book is... Not that fast food is not a good place to learn the value of work, I think that is important, just no learning curve doing your own payroll which translates into doing it when your all grown up.


I could not agree more: i recall having to go from house to house collecting for the papers, then paying the boss for the cost of the papers I delivered to the customers. then i got to keep what was left , plus tips.
Not to mention the perks of trips or rewards if ya got so many new subscriptions.
taught ya a little salesmenship also- hey Ted, is this how it all started??? :)
Brad

[Tedster]

You betcha I was a double route boy way back then in Arbor Heights, and no my mom never drove me around even when it rained every other day.

[3788sam]

Count me as a former paper boy! Rain,snow, sleet, hail I was in it.
In those days you had to go out and collect as well!
Made 20 bucks a week and to my friends I was rich!
I remember turning 16 and wanting to by a car, my dad asked how much money I had saved and he would match dollar for dollar.
Smile on my face was priceless as I told him about $1600.
His smile lasted until he got his first insurance bill with me on it :shock:

[bradvo]

Got my first route when I was 12 in Portland Oregon, also had to do my own collecting.
When we moved on to Spokane at the age of 14 I also had 2 routes, one in the morning and another in the afternoons- I quit the afternoon delivery when Baseball season started.
Sunday papers were a butt buster
Brad

[dumluck53]

Doug,
Good point on the money counting responsibility of paper routes. And, you're right...our Dad (my Dad) would have and did kick my heiney for that!

Ted...come on man...tell us the real truth...mommy didn't drive you around ONE TIME??? Who was it, your sis? Come on man, level with us!!

[Tedster]

Tony, nope back then mom didn't even have a car! Ted

[Roel Jansen]

Nice reading,

We seems to have our differences but also a lot in common.

First about the languages. At elementary school in the 5 and 6 grade you could voluntary follow French lessons after school time. I did. At High school we had to learn English, French and German as foreign languages. From the age of 15 when I visited Berlin Germany to play in a soccer tournament. and it was a pleasure to fully be able to express your self in German. At 17 first visit to Paris and the Med. Many more to both countries followed. Very nice also to be able to have conversations with the French in their own language.

But when we were at Denver airport for the first time I got (very strange) a little angry when I saw almost ever thing written in two languages, English and Spanish.
This anger gr owed when I heard all that Spanish on the slopes at VAIL CO. and in town.
At Dulles international in Washington DC when we hired a car and had some problems with the automatic gear we had trouble understanding what a nice Hispanic tried to tell us in Spanish. I am far from a racist or have any thing against foreign people but one thing is my credo. If you are going to live in foreign country it must be absolutely mandatory to speak the Native language. we now have that for new immigrants. special course about the Dutch way of live and learning the Dutch language. Not free but mandatory.

My kids picked berries!
I had a news paper route a morning paper, so I started at 5 o'clock am.
Dark, wind, rain, hail, snow collect the money but folks often couldn't pay me so you had to come back several times. In those days the paper was 100 percent Roman Catholic and when a guy found out I wasn't a Roman Catholic, I was refused by him to bring him the paper so they sent him it by mail. Today this paper is a left, very progressive news paper! So that was my revenge! :D But in those days it was a Pick to have a news paper route.
We did every thing possible thing toget a job after school time to earn a couple of Florins. No cars involved in those days as blue color folks started to sniff a little at second or older cars,during the week they tried to make them run in the weekend Road assistant. Bicycles that's was what every body had.

[RafaelFigueira]

If you are going to live in foreign country it must be absolutely mandatory to speak the Native language.

Nice reading indeed. But what I think is the most interesting is how the language issue is discussed mostly by anedoctal evidence: "I went to this place...", "I know a guy that...", etc. Yet research shows we dont need to enforce anything: language assimilation happens naturally! :icon_smile:

pewresearch . org/pubs/644/english-language-usage-hispanics

"Fewer than one-in-four (23%) Latino immigrants report being able to speak English very well. However, fully 88% of their U.S.-born adult children report that they speak English very well. Among later generations of Hispanic adults, the figure rises to 94%. [...] A majority of foreign-born Hispanics (52%) report that they speak only Spanish at home. That is true of just 11% of their adult children and of 6% of the children of U.S.-born Hispanics."

It only took two generations (40 years) for the old language to pretty much disappear from regular usage.