Speaking of Vets...

[heymagic]

My wife has a picture of her dad in his sailor suit from WW2. She was talking tonight about giving it to her older brother. I said we could get it copied and give him the copy, it is an 8x11 portrait. She removed it from the frame and saw handwriting on the back, likely her grandmothers. It had his ship name and number and areas of deployment. He never talked about the war to her. Missy never knew what he did until tonight. We did a search on the ship name USS Salamaua http://www.navsource.org/archives/03/096.htm , he makes the hero list in my book. Read the history link midpage. Oddly enough the ship spent some time in San Diego, my dad ran a navy Patrol boat in San Diego, they may well have crossed paths down there. Sadly neither is with us anymore and never met each other. Bless all the vets for their service to us. Gene

[Numbknots]

Gene,

We all can and certainly should be proud of our past and present Service men and women.

I sent out a card of thanks to my Dad who was one of the (three) mountaineering instructors of the 10th mountain division sent to Alaska in 1949 from Camp Hale in Colorado to train soldiers for combat in Italy and Korea. One of the three went on to be a very renowned mountaineer "Maj. Bill Hackett. Another of the group Wes Landes, went on to be quite successful building skis for both Civilian and GA aircraft including the C130 Hercules , Chinook Helios's and DC-3's and all ski equipped civilian bush planes operating in the frozen north. Wes along with Dad also were instrumental in forming the "Alyeska Ski team" that over the years has produced many Olympic contenders. Dads other "army buddy", partnered up with him and formed Alaska Guide and Outfitters and together they pioneered what is now The Alaska Guide Board.

My point in all of this is that it is quite easy to recognize with a little time given in reflective thought to see that our military often brings out the very best in people contrary to what I have heard on many "progressive jabber stations" It is the disciplined training, comradery and sense of purpose and desire to "win" at the game of life that sets most veteran service men and women apart from many Americans today that are just hoping that "someday their train will come in" and while they wait they expect the rest of us and the "govt." to take care of them?

It is interesting to note that some of the Major's earliest climbs were of Mount Hood in WA? The Book "Climb to Glory" might be of interest to some that are especially interested in mountaineering.

“Climb to Glory” is meticulously researched, contains
eight pages of photographs and sketches of
many routes. It is compelling to follow Bill through
his first climbs on Mount Hood and his World War
II experiences with the 10th Mountain Division. He
earned a Silver Star for gallantry on Hill 293. As a
result of the terrible battles in Italy, only nine of
Hackett’s 45-man platoon made it to Lake Garda in
northern Italy.

Dad, as a Sargent taught young ski infantrymen to heave Grenades while
traveling on skis. Dad never saw the war (blessing for us), as nearly all of his squadron didn't return from that mostly forgotten war (Korea) Dad broke his leg doing a ski jumping exhibition for the Generals that were assembled for a summit meeting in Anchorage (orders awaited him at the gear room when the medics went to get his dress uniform to take to the hospital (so the story goes)

As this special day comes to a close I sure hope more and more Americans continue to support our boys/girls in current conflict!

Tim

[Go Aweigh2452]

Tim, sending a card is awesome. When I speak to some of my students I find out that their grandfathers/grandmothers served in the military and some in Korea or Vietnam. I then ask them what their grandparents did and what service. They seem stunned not knowing and they realize they should know. I then ask if they are still alive and most say yes. I tell them they have a chance to find out about their family...

I ask them to please take a small recorder and as a "family tree" project, ask them about what they did. These kids eyes light up and I have heard from a couple that found out a lot about there own family, more then they would have. They come in and purposely find me to tell me they now know what their grandparents did. Sometimes you can't see the individual trees in the forest. These kids get it when you give them a little push... One kid is doing her cuminating project from high school over what her grand dad did in Korea. pretty awesome... not much time is left either...
Each day, about 1,100 World War II veterans pass away. We owe them an incredible debt. Short story...

Decades after the Normandy invasion, a veteran stood in the cemetery overlooking Omaha Beach. He said, “Standing here in appreciation and sadness and postponed grief, I can only wonder -- why not me?”
Millions of veterans have asked themselves the same question, and it has shaped the course of their lives. Another veteran observed: “I feel like I’ve played my part in turning this from a century of darkness into a century of light.”

Your dad Tim certainly did that and I for one thank him and his band of brothers.

Some people think you have to be at the pointy end of the spear to be a real veteran when in reality for every one person at the front line there are 9 or more others supporting him. Each one had a job to do and without the other 9+, the one at the front would not have been there. Sounds like you have a great dad! I hope you have all/most of his stories so you can pass it on.

[Numbknots]

Thanks Doug,

It is with tearful eyes I am laying here on our wonderful, peaceful, and expensive M/Y thinking if it weren't for the hard lessons learned from my sometimes overly strict, sometimes even cold, caloused and insensitive Dad where would I be??? I truly with all my heart think now more then ever we should have a draft into some form of "civil service" I see so many youngsters that are so inmature and confused as what they are here for, what they should do and most importantly what can they do?

My Dad is not in very good health now, and unfortunately he has become pretty confused in his latter years about what I consider most important, that being his Spiritual life. It is so sad that so many kids today don't have a Father (and a mother) at home (in the same home) to nurture and mentor them through the journey of life. We don't have a kid problem, in my opinion . What we are suffering in America is but the results of now two generations with out a strong and "willing" father in the home, taking on the responsilities that go with the decision they made to bring children into this world. It is a real source of encouragement to read of and get to know gentlemen like yourself that have "chosen to make a difference" extended beyond their own family.

I am leaving for 2 weeks to the Philippines on a missions trip. My Pastor is speaking to the Nation at conference called "Men of Promise" similiar to the Promise Keepers conferences here a few years ago. I will be helping to build some Church buildings, make repairs and will also get the chance to speak to the Locals in at least one meeting. I hope to be able to impart to them that they too can be successful if they follow the universal rules for that success----It starts at Home----

Have a great Week End and stay warm and dry :P

Tim

[Go Aweigh2452]

they say a picture is worth a 1000 words...

http://www.iboatnw.com/gallery/data/media/12/Vet_Day_2005.gif

[draveling]

Tim,
I know of Wes Landes and I know his son gary I am in the aircraft busness up here in alaska, that's a great story of your dad, I have a picture of my dad in the navy in world war two he was stationed on a landing craft getting ready to go into Japan when the bomb dropped and ended the war. If that hadn't happened I may not have been here today. I was in the Coast Guard from 67-71 . thank god for Vets.
Larry

[Roel Jansen]

I have read all this with big interests. It's so different in all aspects.
Over here we don't have such warm feelings about the military in general, to say it in a nice way. When young, if you could stay out of it, you were a kind of a hero. One of my friends even tried a so called attempt of suicide when he was drafted in and to my big grief, he finally succeeded to get out.(a live) He was highly supported in doing so by his parents. For most youngsters the 2 years drafted in the Army were felt as a totally waste of time and money. Exemption was the Navy and some what lesser the Air force. Before the war we had the so called Broken riffle movement. People wore pins of a broken riffle on their suits. The back ground of this movement was the thinking that war was a capitalists affair who used the working class to do the dirty job, by killing each other while the Capitalists earned their fortunes, thanks to the war. So it was workers of Europe unite and prevent the Capitalists to us be slaughtered. We workers are no enemies, they are. It will be clear that also the deep depression helped to develop that vision among the workers. As the socialists parties were established and took part in Governments it will be clear why Europe army's in common were so ill prepared. This thinking is also in these days although never explicit outspoken still hidden deep, but present in the thinking over here. Second was that after world war I Europe countries were tired of wars on their soils. And the founding of the Soviet union gave hope for a better future for the mass of workers. Seeing former enemies becoming big business partners even rather direct after WWII and the making of NATO en the European Union feeds the thinking that those wars were unnecessary and costs life's and money..
But never, never jump into the conclusion that we are not grateful for the liberation of our country by the US, the Canadians and the British and that goes for any other occupied country in Europe. But keep in mind that the Russians are seen as liberators too!
For me I am always surprised to see that military is present at the Superbowl or opening of the baseball season don't try that over here!. But I thank all those veterans on my bare knees what they have done for us and me. Happy veterans day! :D

[Go Aweigh2452]

Roel, I appreciate your perspective

[SomeSailor]

Tim,
I know of Wes Landes and I know his son gary I am in the aircraft busness up here in alaska
Larry

What part of Alaska Larry? I spent some time out in the Aleutians and up in the circle in the mid 80's

[dumluck53]

Thanks for the background explanation, Roel. Interesting.

[draveling]

SS,
I am about 40 miles north of Anchorage, Between Palmer and Wasilla at Wolf Lake airport, My wife and I live in an apartment on our hangar, which is our business, we do aircraft maintenence and rebuilding on cessna's and cub type aircraft. Landes builds skis and big nose forks for cessna's and I install alot of them. We are a long ways from aleutians I was a commercial fisherman out in Bristol bay which is a little closer to the aleutian chain.
Larry

[Randygh]

Roel

Thanks for the insight regarding your country's outlook on military institutions. I find it absolutely niave that people would look favorably on the former USSR in comparison to the USA. Communism was a dismal failure due to, among other things, lack of worker incentive. I wonder how many illegal immigrants move into the former Soviet Union countries?

[Roel Jansen]

Randy,

Some thoughts on a dark sunday afternoon.

One of the absolute highlights of my visit to NYC among some others like ground zero, was Ellis Island that has made a very deep impression on me. I had heard a lot about Ellis island and mostly, better always, what I heard was not so good. And if I hadn't seen it myself I always would have kept the totally wrong picture, my mind has made. Old pictures in black and white still are more impressive than colored ones I think. But they also can make you wrong footed. As those pictures of the rows of poor people waiting to enter the US at Ellis island did at first to me. Totally wrong interpretation! Ellis Island was a part of the dream they had and gave them the feeling that it was almost coming through! A beautiful door into a new start of life.
But what will be the situation in the world be decennials after we are gone? Seeing pictures or movies from our times people may say how could be so naive as they ever have believed..........fill in what you want. :D I always ask my self what if I had lived in the years between World war I and II and was young, unemployed and had a family to feed, horrible living circumstances, which side would have attracted me, Communism or National socialism? Would I have been in the Dutch resistant fighting against the occupation of our country by the Nazis or would I have fought in German service at the East front near Leningrad or Stalingrad, wearing the uniform of the Dutch SS brigade , as Dutch youngsters in their late teens, who believed in National socialism, did? I simply can't answer that as I don't know! Randy try to picture your self, not knowing what you know to day in that situation. Go back to the country your ancestors came from and start in the days before 1914 if in Europe. What would you have done? You asked why people were so naive? But who is or actually was? The Kaiser of Germany who taught they could defeat 3 nations? The Japanese by attacking the US? The Nazi's by attacking the Soviet union after they had conquered halve of Europe in a relative very short time? Was the poor mass of workers in Europe naive, you and me included when they chosen to try to make it in the USA, a country considered to have unlimited possibilities? Or the others who believed they could built a new society in their home lands? They all were if compared to us to day very limited as they didn't know what we know today. :D But the darn thing is we can't learn from our future! We can't make the future but we can influence it by learning from the past. I think that's why I think knowing history and interpreting what it's telling us is so important as History is repeating its self times by times. :D
A lot of difficulties we encounter to day are due to decisions that are made a very long time ago by people that didn't learn from their history. And we pay the price today.

[SomeSailor]

I also think it's important to be realistic about the future as well. The Middle East is a perfect example. It's a strtegic region that must be controlled in a fashion that assures US and other world interests are met in both the near and far future.

It was the US the developed that region. It was the US that stabilized it years ago and provided the oil infrastructure that is in place there now. If we look at it strategically (let alone idealogically) it makes sense to protect that interest.

The future has a way of working itself out, but we need to be sure if we're writing the history books today, that we record it accurately. The most recent allegations over who supported us going to Iraq and why, are great examples.

[pkrogh]

Raol,
Thank you for showing us your insight. As a person long interested in
history, and as one who has done a lot of living history work (18Th cen.)
I know well that as much as we try, we cannot fully put ourselves in the
mindset of the past. I have spent weeks in completely period situations,
where there was nothing of the present visible, the the present is always
there. The best we can do is try to understand the thinking of the people
of the past and to never judge them or their actions by our standards.

Pete

[Roel Jansen]

Mike,

We can discus if there has ever been a stable middle east region in history.

Not only the US but also some other countries like The UK with BP, The Italians with AGIP, the French with TOTAL and we Dutch with Royal SHELL have large interests if we stick to Oil and made huge investments in the middle East for a long time.

I think that it's also very normal that countries have their own different interests. To defend those interests they develop a policy and that doesn't always match with the policy of others, mostly they don't. To solve that problem we have a tool called diplomacy. Mostly that works out and compromises are made. But it also fails and than we got in the worse case a War.

I also think that every country has the right to defend it's interests for the benefit or safety of their citizens. So for sure the US has that right! I agree with you. But what I don't understand is why that right is denied to France.

Writing history is done by people who have the difficult task to do it without an own emotional judgment and have to stick to the bare controllable facts from reliable sources, only. But if they live in a time when it's hardly impossible to have an open access to those important sources and when propaganda rules like we had in the period of the Cold War, we get a very twisted History writing.

After WW II we still had the question about the mass murder on the Polish army officers at Katowice. Locals said that they were executed by the Russians and the Russians said it was done by the German SS. An American war reporter who was detached by an Russian Army Force and was at the spot and saw the grave and the bodies wrote in a book (I have) that he was convinced that it was done by the Germans based on the fact that there were German shells found . Now after the cold war is over and we have access to the KGB dossiers we now know the truth and that it was done by the Russians with German riffles.

[Roel Jansen]

Pete,

You wrote exactly what I meant ! :D

[SomeSailor]

Roel;

I think as the planet shrinks and political borders begin to blur, each country has another role to play in an economic sense.

Some natural resources are vital to the rest of the world. The stability of the distribution of those resources is growing ever more important.

There will come a time when the world runs critically low on crude oil. When that time comes, there needs to be a stable, rational and democratic presense in that region of the world. Imagine if all Muslim countries fell into the control of religious fanatics who were just fine seeing the world grind to a stop. You're probably talking about a global crisis. This needs to be addressed now.

We'll have a military presense in that region from here on out. You can count on that. It may fly an Iraqi flag, but you can bet there'll be an American presense there. Just as we are based and operate out of Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE, Bahrain Afghanistan, Turkey, Germany and the rest of Europe... we'll be a significant force for some time to come.

[pkrogh]

Unfortunately, SS, we have some very provincial thinkers in gov't
and among the citizens who can't see that far ahead.

Pete

[Go Aweigh2452]

Well, as SS stated, we will continue to be present in every country that has oil reserves to ensure they are available whe the time comes. I can see a WWIII if we don't have an adequate distribution system in place by the time we run close to going dry.

[SomeSailor]

I haven't seen that movie "Syriana", but it looks like thats exactly what the theme is. Looks like a good flick too. :)