Education system going to hell

[Go Aweigh2452]

Well, I use to subscribe to Teacher Magazine and Education Week but just canceled my subscription. Let's see... I am not allowed to visit sites that discuss war or go to ones like military.com (firewalled) to read about what's happening but I can access moveon.org and get the below kind of junk. I copied the lastest email I received from them below so you can see why I cancelled my subscription (And don't give me that load of horse manure about equality or listening to the minority)... And I'm supposed to pass this on to the kids so maybe they think this life style is OK???: NOT

Dear Doug Cook,

LIVE CHAT: Gay and Lesbian Students: Finding Their Voices

WHEN: Wed., Nov. 30, 3-4 p.m. Eastern time

WHERE: http://www.edweek-chat.org/

According to the National Mental Health Association, 28 percent of gay students--almost three times the national average--end up dropping out of school. In this chat, Kevin Jennings, the executive director of the Gay, Lesbian, and Straight Education Network and the subject of the recent TEACHER MAGAZINE article "Straight Talk," will take questions on the challenges facing gay and lesbian teens and his organization's sometimes controversial efforts to help those students advocate for themselves.

ABOUT THE GUEST:

Kevin Jennings is the executive director of the Gay, Lesbian, and Straight Education Network. A native of North Carolina, he is a graduate of Harvard University and a former high school teacher. Along with advocating for safer schools, GLSEN is best known for supporting students starting gay-straight alliances--school-based clubs that foster discussion of issues surrounding sexual orientation.

Please join us for this discussion:
http://www.edweek-chat.org/

[pkrogh]

So it's that open now, is it? I could go on for hours about most schools these
days!!

Pete

[Go Aweigh2452]

What gets me is the lies they are spewing also...

According to the National Mental Health Association, 28 percent of gay students--almost three times the national average--end up dropping out of school.

If they were dropping out at such a high rate then why are the gay/lesbian population thought of as having so much earned income? By there own admission: http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=367810

Something is not right here. Typical play on statistics to validate themselves once more...


On a more positive note:

FWIW, We had a GSA (Gay Straight Alliance) Club here two years ago but it got booted due to the counselor moving to Texas. No one else wanted to volunteer to oversee the club.

On the other hand, we back a Christian club outside of NJROTC and they meet every Wed after school.

Pete said:
I could go on for hours about most schools these
days!!


Pete, I would not be too hard on the schools themselves. It is the legislature that mandates these things. School officials have to comply with the rules Olympia sets up for them... The schools are very regulated by the state and getting more so ever year.

[pkrogh]

Doug,
You're right. I was just getting to the "bottom line" in the effect it has on
the students.
A friend down in CA was very involved with everything his son and daughter
did, school, scouts, the whole routine. He was always telling me about how
the "socialists" had taken over down there and were pouring a lot of revisionist
crap in the minds of students. He wasn't alone, I heard that from a lot of
folks, even here in WA.
I just don't think "biased teaching" belongs in the schools. Kids are sponges
and will soak up what they hear early and then apply that later. Our future?
The ability to examine all available information, sort out the crap and then
draw and educated conclusion is the best thing we can "teach" our children.

Off my box now,

Pete

[Roel Jansen]

Pete,

Sorry to say but the cold war is over for some years now. :D

Teachers have to help our youngsters, to develop them self's as people with open minds and who can make judgments by them self's. It's a pity that some, people refuse to understand that the World isn't limited by the boundaries of their country and they are just a part of it. We now have a Global economy and that means, business is far ahead of politics. If we don't realize this we maybe will miss the band wagon. Time is changing and it always is and will be. Only when we take part in an active way we can influence those changes and get a lot of opportunities to achieve what we want or need as people, is my humble opinion.
Socialism as you call it is also chancing, but I am afraid what we (I) Europeans, can't explain to most Americans, is the fact how it works in daily live.
There is so many misunderstanding and assuming and one of the most spread is in a Socialist system you don't have to work just lean back open up your mouth and the Government will feed you. Nothing is less true. In principle it's so very simple, there isn't apparently any difference in the goal, we people have. A socialist credo is the Chimneys must smoke and all will have to work, for their daily bread. Being a hard worker is a high goal to achieve, in what ever profession.
The difference? We believe that the country and it's assets are the proprietary of all the people. Not only of a happy few, every individual should according to his contribution, take part of the well fare in the country. We believe that the Government, who is elected by the people, has the main task to get things regulated, in a fair and honest way, as the majority of the people want. That includes a lot, also to create and establish a good climate that will encourage entrepreneurs to start new business and others to expand. Our basic human needs, like medical care and a pension, must be accessible for every one but they are not free as that is a very wide spread misunderstanding. Mandatory free education for every one until a certain age. The costs for those systems we get from taxes and are payed by the people to the Government, on a base that the strongest contribute more than the weakest, and that is based on Christian principles. The difference between Socialism and Communism is also simple too, in Communism the State is the most important and in Socialism the individual, who has the right to develope him and gets the possibility and means to get every thing out of him and so he will contribute to our society. What's wrong with this? We are one of the wealthiest counties in the whole World, we have a lot of big Multinationals for such a small country, like Royal Shell, Unilever, Philips, Akzo-Nobel, just to name a few. We are after the US the biggest exporters of food. And even the biggest investors in the US.
And as it 's also in every other country I think every party has its own more or less left to right wing members and voters. :D

[SomeSailor]

I like good old capitalism and democracy myself. Any system that concentrates power in the state at the expense of individual freedoms, isn't something I'm interested in supporting.

Capitalism is the only system which does not deprive the individual of his rights. It is also the only system which rewards the value of work of a work ethic.

I think one thing that is missed in many of these conversations is the Socialism appears to grow best by investing and re-investing in Capitalism.

Some of the wealthiest countries in the world are just that because they have invested heavily in the infrastructure of the United States. What would happen to the Netherlands for example if the US flipped the switch overnight and became a Socialist regime? I don't think your example would work.

[Roel Jansen]

Mike, you said and I quote:


Capitalism is the only system which does not deprive the individual of his rights.

I tried to make clear that's not true! But if you simply can't or want believe me this discussion is useless. For your information you should know that all European countries rectified the International rights of mankind.

As a kid and also today I have learned if you like it or not but The Netherlands are far most the best country in the entire world to live in! Sounds familiar isn't?

Sorry but I had this kind of discussion going on at BOC with dmcb and I lost a friendship there and as I don't want to lose another, I think it's better to not continue this one. For me the cold war poisoned the brains of millions of people mislead by rulers that had different agenda's on both sides and I was glad it finally was over. It was stupid of me to go into this one again. But absolutely no harm done just my interpretation. :D

[SomeSailor]

Like I've told you before Roel, you're political views are VERY welcome here. It's refreshing to see someone happy with the system they live under. I would certainly never say that the Netherlands was any less country than the US (or any other).

I just personally believe that a person (regardless of the country they're from, or religeous background, or race), shouldn't be held back from achieving their truest potential. In the capitalist system we live under, basic human rights are guaranteed (as they are in yours), but many other things are not.

I believe many of the social programs we have in this country have the opposite affect of their intended. Our welfare system is destroyer of whole generations. Our education system is headed that way. Our medical system is wracked with beauracracy and letigious money-grabbing.

The only thing an American should be guaranteed... is a decent public education, the right to join the military and the basic civil rights defined in the Constitution and it's Ammendments.

Work hard... make money... Wnat more??? work harder... make more money... pay more taxes. Works like a charm. Everybody wins.

No free rides.

[pkrogh]

I think I must apologise here for my use of the word "socialist" when I could
have used another descriptive. I truly didn't mean to start fights and now
feel terrible that I have.

I wanted to convey the idea that many school districts are not teaching the
whole truth with regards to history and in many cases have been caught
teaching "revised" history that is clearly biased.

I obviously didn't choose the right set of words.

Please accept my sincere apologies, I would hate to alienate anyone.

Pete

[SomeSailor]

Don't sweat it Pete... Roel is the coolest guy I know from the Netherlands...

OK... well he's the ONLY guy I know from the Netherlands... but he'll shoot straight with ya and not get offended.

He's a pretty sharp guy too... (for an ex-Marine) :D

[pkrogh]

I just don't want Roel to think I'm still fighting the cold war or being
judgemental about anyones country or political system in a closed minded
way. Sure, I have my views and "druthers" but so do others. And rightfully so.

I'll try to be clearer in future.

Pete

"Today is Tomorrows History"

[Roel Jansen]

Pete,

Don't be afraid even Mike isn't, some one seems to know me a little! :D

And this posting is done in below the belt, sorry waterline here!

Often when we were in the US and asked where we came from we were asked how we scoop with Socialism. I always answer Why do you ask?
And always they came up with very stereotype remarks that had nothing really nothing to do with Socialism. First Socialism in Europe is different in every country in Europe. Second in some countries there is always the need of a coalition to form a Government. Third there are periods that Socialist oriented parties don't take part in Government. Like at the moment over here we have a 4 year term and than we have elections. The present junta is halve way it's second term and hopefully it's last. The way they act is so bad that our Prime minister is no 1 in the polls of the most irritating Dutchmen. But like in Germany I am sure that we will have the old coalition back Social-democrats with Christian Democrats and according to the outcome a third party maybe needed normally one of the smaller parties. But also in the parties them selves you find people who are more left or more right thinking. So you will notice that we always have a mix from left to right with all graduations of political thinking in the Government and Parliament. There is a lot of left and right wing shouting especially before the elections. :D
But what we really do over here is political negotiating about every subject. I.E like the Entrepreneurs Union and the Workers Unions negotiations over a collective working agreement for workers in a particular segment of employment but it's not done for every segment.
Is this socialism? No, we call it "the Poldermodel". Highly praised and admired in other European countries. Why? we normally have a very stable Government and we have hardly any strikes about labor conflicts! Very good for foreign Companies to establish there European Head quarters in our Country. Canon is one of the big ones. In 2006 we will have a new system of health care.
Away goes the system of the income related way of insurance. What we get now is that every body has to have a basic insurance that covers all that's needed for a good normal health care. Everybody is mandatory to have it and the insurance companies have to accept every one. Next to it you can get extra insurances like dentist costs or cost for delivering a baby in hospital. In the old system below a certain income level you had every thing insured the monthly fee was abstracted from the monthly pay automatically and above the level you had to insure your self as both of us had to do. The old system was influenced by a Government that had the Social democrats in and the new one not.
Which one will be better? The old one had its pros and con's and the new one have. So i wrote this novel to show you that our Socialism is one far from a totalitarian system. It for sure doesn't kill private initiatives no on the contrary it 's stimulated and funds are accesable to help. But if you have worked and you get out of a Job and it's not your fault there is money, at the end of your working life at 65 there is a State pension and every body has good Health care. So again why can't you life with this? :D
And of course income differs a lot also overhere don't be afraid but there is a fixed minimum amount you should get.

[SomeSailor]

Many of the things that are being attributed to the Socialist way of doing things exist here in our Capitalist (Democratic) system as well.

- We have a pension system for those over 65
- We have Medicare and Medicaide for those needing medical care
- We have a Federal and State subsidized unemployment insurance system

I just think there is a limit to where the common-pot economics should be allowed. A persons personal efforts should stand for something. I guess the differences are more obviously at the core philosophies rather than the two systems themselves, because both are working well.

The U.S. is often compared economically with smaller countries, but on the grand scale of global economics... U.S. economics are very dependent on assets abroad as well. No other country in the history of man has spend so much in defense of an ideal, or more recently in the war against the idea of terrorism.

Japan is a great example, as is South Korea. They are economic giants... but without the defense of the U.S., they would fall in short order.

[pkrogh]

I guess I think of "socialism" in a different way than the current usage. I'm
aware of the generally successful systems in Holland, Sweden and others
but don't see those countries as having "hard core socialist" systems like
existed decades ago in places. So maybe I need to "update" my definitions.
Holland (and Roel, you are the third one from there I have talked with) has
an enviable record of governmental stability and economic creativity going
back hundreds of years. The Dutch invented banking and the idea of credit!
In this country the gap between the haves and the have nots is increasing
quickly and our "leaders" are not looking at the global big picture very well.
We will be seriously battered by the Chinese economy if we don't change
our ways. But I question just how well a more socialist type of system
(health care for instance) will really help. I think that major changes are needed
here in the health care field but I'm thinking along the lines of how to reign
in the costs, not how to get gov't to pay for increasing costs. Just an example.
I guess I am still a believer in each individual taking care of themselves.
But that is becoming extremely difficult for the have nots. Local neighborhood
assistance can only go so far in many cases.
The "socialist" example I see most is England. It would appear that most of
the country is "on the dole" and their medical system is not very good.
That's the impression I get. The Canadian medical system is seriously
broken.
Our medical system for the poor is seriously broken.
So what to do?? My wife and I have to put about a third of our fixed
income into health care costs which doesn't leave a lot for fun stuff.
I guess I should have stayed in the Navy like Mike did. But that's another
story.
I hope I can meet some of you guys at the Seattle Boat Show in Jan.!!
Are you coming Roel??
Thanks for listening,
Pete

[Roel Jansen]

Pete,

I think I go to the boat show in Dusseldorf Germany. :D

Only an one and a halve hour drive. Seems to be the biggest in the World as they advertise it. and it's indeed a very big one.

BTW we even invented the Stock market. The East Indian Company the World's first real multinational,l in the 17 Th century made it possible to invests in ships.
So when they came back loaded with pepper and all the other goodies you got according to the amount you donated a share of the profit made. :D

I think a Health care system as we have here for sure it also would do you no harm. Implanting our total social system is a different story.

Look at the benefits of a basic mandatory insurance. You would be not have to worry any more that an illness that may occur to any of your family members, which is already worse enough, will also ruin you.
Lot of people will start to see the Md's in a much earlier stage and get an early diagnostic and medicine. No need of playing MD by your selves with all the danger that implicit.

It also will be much more cheaper than a totally private insurance with the possibility to be thrown out. The danger of such a system exists if to many luxury not real threatening health methods are included. You have to careful watch what is really needed and what not. A nose correction isn't really needed the same goes for eye corrections not necessary if you wear good old glasses. But you still have the possibility to have those insured but you will have to pay extra for it.

Mike, I don't think small countries can make a change in the world economy.
Only the bigger Nations can. Smaller Nations like ours only can decide the way they spent their money to stimulate spending or bring it down.
They also can increase or degrease customer faith. What has an impact on local and national circumstances only.

[Go Aweigh2452]

The Netherlands are one of the very few countires in the world that exceed the UN agreement of .7% international aid. They have normally given in the range of over .8%. That's cool!