They DEMAND homework instructions in Spanish!

[Go Aweigh2452]

From Soundpolitics.com:

Can you imagine an American family moving to Mexico, or Argentinia, or Bulgaria, and the parents then complaining to the local schools because they didn't send daily homework instructions translated into English? The Yakima-Herald-Republic reports today that at what sounds like a poorly-run meeting last week in Wapato, non-English-speaking parents protested they couldn't help their children with their homework because instructions weren't coming home in Spanish. It sounds like the school district over-reacted by shutting down the meeting, but the parents are wrong, nonetheless. They should learn English - it's the language of the country in which they live and prosper. I certainly can't say that any of the parents were illegal immigrants, but this sort of entitlement mentality - combined with minimal effort to assimilate - dovetails with our country's illegal immigration problem. The school district is mainstreaming the kids; the parents should get with the program. It sounds like Wapato could take a page from The Federal Way School District, which offers an English-language course for Spanish-speaking parents, other Latino adults and students.

[draveling]

What if it is an English lesson? If they can't speak english how could they possibly help them with it.
I don't get it ! but it doesn't surprise me.
It's right in line with Winter Break instead of Christmas break, or Holiday party instead of Christmas party.

Larry

[heymagic]

I tend to agree, however, I have several kids who are of Asian decent. The parents speak English, but with some trouble. Also consider many immigrants are possibly less educated also. It's kinda tough to move to a foreign country and become fluent in the language when you are an adult. Even harder if the schooling is vastly different than you're used to. Then consider the different ways many teachers operate. For instance, Brent's math teacher last year didn't work out of the book. He jumped around, added work from another source and so on. Hard to help with math when the assignment doesn't match the reference material. This year we have a newbie mathe teacher...oh boy ! He's decided to mark down the scores if the answers are not in a perfect line, 2 spaces apart. Doesn't matter if they are right and legible. I had to go to the principal on this one. New teacher got an education , much better now.

[Go Aweigh2452]

Gene, that is a good lesson for all parents out there. The school responds very well to a parent and will get on top of a teacher in no time flat to satisfy the parent. Believe me, most of the schools around Washington are this way and the teachers are pretty "shy" when it comes to ruffling feathers sometimes. (Unless, as a teacher, you can show that you are consistent and fair and have a record of problems and counseling you have held on the student). Then the front office will play mediator. If the teacher is any good, they will be kept and "schooled"/monitored. FYI, every teacher in WA is observed twice a year for good teaching techniques. Brets teacher will undoubtly get a slam on the next one for sure. Soo, keep on the teachers and don't let them do their own thing. Not using the book is a no no... We all have to follow our curriculum. Some schools require a weekly curriculum lesson plan turned in to the front office every week. Bret's school obviously does not... But next time you run into a seemly odd situation, ask the front office if that teacher is following the curriculum as required by his/her dept head? If you get a blank stare... Ask to see it! We are required by the state to have them and go by them! Even if we depart from the book, we need to show that we are covering the material... hence a curriculum log of sorts!

[SomeSailor]

I kindof agree with the math teacher's issues. From personal experience, math is as much a learned art as a science in many ways. Teaching good habits is very hard, especially for bright students who can see the answer without all the extra steps. I used to get dinged repeatedly in college when I'd forget to circle answers with this one Professor. She had good reason. She was simply trying to see the work I used to arrive at my answers.

Following the curriculum is important. Learning objectives and goals that are easily followed help everyone out, but a really GOOD teacher, can work his or her flare into most any lesson. Some of the best instructors I had were those who got outside the box pretty quickly... but they made you understood what was in it first.

Don't they have paid bilingual teachers at your school that could help with the parents being more involved? I think just GETTING a parent to come to the school and saying they feel left out says something. Most don't care these days.

[Salmon Troller]

No, I'm not waving a French flag on this, but their recent riots (gee, it's getting back to normal - only 400 cars burned last night). We should look at the results of failing to integrate immigrants under our common language, culture etc. This is what makes us strong and avoids the disaster of leaving a sub-culture orphaned inside our borders.

[Go Aweigh2452]

We should look at the results of failing to integrate immigrants under our common language, culture etc.

There are more opportunities today than in the recent past that attempts to assimilate ESL (English Second Language) in schools and colleges around the country.

FWIW, Most of the immigrants that came over here did not speak English or spoke very little and they assimilated quite well.

Why is it OUR responsibility to get ESL people to go to school and learn English. Why can't they take the responsibility on themselves? Granted a lot do but it seems to me that too many whine that they need to have stuff translated for them. Sorry, but that is an issue they should address head on and find someone in their ethnic group that DOES understand English and help them (self help even). If they have internet access or can get to a library, they can have all texts translated into any language they want these days. In fact many of these sites are free. You can even google and translate a foreign language page today. Gramatically, it may have syntax errors, etc. but the overall jist of the page will be clear!

Some schools have over 35 languages to deal with. What do you want to do with them? We have 18 different languages spoken here at my school by students. How many translations should we be expected to do? My opinion... none. What next, Naturalization tests in various languages to become a US citizen? The instructions and all the paperwork are already in many languages you can chose from...

In addition, I said it before, get rid of all second language road signs and those @#$% ATM's that ask you to select English, as if it should not be an automatic default... and if you wanted Spanish or some other language, you make the choice yourself... but we are way toooo PC to do that? BS... OK, rant over... :oops:

[SomeSailor]

I agree that the classes themselves should not be taught in a second language, but I think some latitude for parents is understandable.

California pays a $1000 buns for teachers who are bi-lingual. Texas pays a $5,000 singing bonus for latino teachers.

I wholeheartedly agree with you Doug. The importance of speking english... even beyond civic pride, is the odds of being a productive taxpayer and citizen are MUCH greater.

Each of these kids needs the best chance for success. The part of the world their parents came from shouldn't be an issue when raising the next generation of Americans.

[Go Aweigh2452]

Well, the highest grade point average here at Curtis is the Korean kids. The parents are very strict and make their kids take courses that will be best overall for college/post high school. Some of my Koreans are not allowed TV or radio privileges during the school week and only limited internet to do homework. They seem to excel here. I broke that code a while ago and since we are an elective, I have to advertise somewhat to get kids in the class. One of the reasons I have so many Pacific Rim in my NJROTC class is the push I have on post high school education and the scholarship opportunities we can provide. We broke the $3 million mark in scholarships earned last year, the end of our 5th year here at Curtis. Beat the school every awards night since the first year.

The way I see it, I am protecting my social security benefits if these kids get a good education and earn good pay... OK, that was a bad selfless joke... ;)

[heymagic]

But, try to imagine waking up in Kenya...learning to speak that language, learning that culture, earning a living and helping your kids with Kenyan homework..not an easy task when you're in your 30's or beyond. 2nd languages are way easy for children, not so easy for adults. Then consider the likely differences in curiculum (sp) between a school in a Cambodian village and say LA. I'll bet the trig classes don't exist over there. We are a very privelaged people, even when overseas there are English schools and tutors, rarely if ever do we have to meld with a foreign society. I think imports should make every effort to learn our language and customs, not at the expense of theirs, but it's going to take time for them once they are adults.

[Salmon Troller]

Your point about Americans in Kenya or another non-english country is interesting, but I want to touch on a previous point. We are discussing immigrants, not tourists or temporary employment. These are people who left their former country on a one way ticket, for themselves and their childrens future. I would hope that an American who is really immigrating to Kenya would have the sense to learn and adopt the language and culture of their new homeland.

[SomeSailor]

The way I see it, I am protecting my social security benefits if these kids get a good education and earn good pay... OK, that was a bad selfless joke... ;)

No joke at all Doug. That's exactly what we all should be doing. Raising taxpayers... not cheats or lazy dot.goners. The legacy this country leaves will be a generation of "What's in it for me?" if we're not careful.

I see nothing wrong with that logic.

[SomeSailor]

..not an easy task when you're in your 30's or beyond. 2nd languages are way easy for children, not so easy for adults.

That's why we should work hard to get the parents the assistance they need to help with their kids education. Heck... just that they're helping (or at least asking for help) is a step in the right direction.

I'm not in favor of bilingual classes though. My son endured that in California. He would sit there and fidget 50% of the time because 50% of the class was spent re-hashing the lesson blah blah habla espaniol :D

[heymagic]

I agree , American schools, English language.

[SomeSailor]

Yep. Only exception might be if a kid shows up with limited english language skills. We need to have some system in place to get them up to speed and into the mainstream.

Special education requirements extend beyond physical disabilities. I think they should treat language barriers as they would any other impediment to learning (in an ALL english environment).

Second languages are important as well. Each kid should be exposed to foriegn languages... but not in his primary classroom.

[pkrogh]

SS,
I like your concept of extending special ed to include ESL classes. A kid who
doesn't speak english is fighting as much of a handicap as the others.

Now, if we could get the schools to teach proper language use at all......

I see the language butchered in newspapers now!!!

Pete

[Randygh]

I really believe it is important for parents to be involved in their childrens' education. Our kids had a few very good teachers, most were there to earn a paycheck, and a few were bona fide morons who had no business being in front of a classroom. Typical bell curve.


Here in Wenatchee, there is ample opportunity for non-English speaking adults (Hispanic and Russian) to obtain free English instruction. While there is participation, many parents do not take the classes which are usually at night. I think this is because the parents work long days, have kids to care for and the usual household chores to do in the evenings.

When our kids were in school, the Admiral and/or I attended the parent teacher conferences. We went to the conferences until they graduated. Interestingly, there was a disproportionate number of Hispanic parents at the conferences. Frequently the students were with the parent(s) to interpret with the teacher. Even though mom and dad couldn't speak English, they were definitely concerned about their child's education.

Also, I wonder how much help the parents would be to their kids when doing homework? I was able to help the kids with science, math (up to algebra II) and the social sciences. I wonder how many of the non English speaking parents had enough education to help their kids find a lowest common denominator, balance a chemistry equation, or circle a prepositional phrase?? :D

[SomeSailor]

I saw that here at my son's High School at an open-house just a few months ago. The school has a full-time hispanic counselor now, that spoke briefly to the hispanic parents in the crowd. You could see the smiles on their faces as they realized there was a way for them to be involved with their kid's education. She was being made available to answer questions and serve as the middle ground better faculty and their kids. Good plan.

[Go Aweigh2452]

Speaking of non-english speaking and the WASL...

"Gov. Christine Gregoire said in a talk yesterday that one way to ensure all Washington state students pass their WASLs is to give them the math tests in their native languages. "


Brilliant! Our colleges and employers will surely welcome high school graduates who can't deal with quantitative verbiage in English.

[Roel Jansen]

Every immigrant has to pass a proof of their knowledge of the Dutch language, and of the habits we have and our culture. Will it work? A lot of people doubt it. First I think we are rather hypocrite when what we call the "guest" workers, are concerned. When our economy in the sixties and seventies was piping hot we recruited labor force in Italy, most from the poor southern part. The second wave were the Spanish. When their economies started to grow and a lot returned, recruiting offices were raised in the Northern African countries. Almost nobody was against it as they did the jobs we didn't want to do any more. It may be clear that those initiatives came from the party of entrepreneurs and not from the labor party. But both agreed. The big mistake that was made was that the politics never thought that those people wouldn't go home like the Italians and Spanish did.
Giving them full access to our Social system was an other mistake, because they had to pay taxes at the same rates as we did. And if you pay taxes you have duties but also rights. so they started to let their family come over and it became clear that the temporary status was chancing to permanent. The children born here also got the Dutch nationality. The first groups of workers were alone and had to understand and speak some Dutch to be able to get necessary things they needed.
But the reunion of the families stopped them using the language better as their kids who learned the language very fast, were used as their interpreters. At home they spoke their own language and didn't change their habits. No integration in our society what so ever. The rapid automation of processes in Industry made clear that they, as unskilled work force, were no longer needed. So when the financial pain was felt by paying a lot of money for their unemployment the same party that was eager to recruit them wanted them to leave the country. And the Labor party after some "protesting" agreed. I think this is very hypocrite. The Swiss who were criticized by us (me too) actually learned us what should have been done. A contract for an esteemed period with limited access to social security and than leave the country. No family reunion, so hardly no body that doesn't want to go home.

What we have now is elder foreign people not speaking our language totally depending on their kids, who are an in between generation with a high rate of unemployment because they didn't finish school, and some causing Lot's of trouble and seek their way into fanaticism religion groups.

[heymagic]

Doug, CG's plan will weaken an already less than perfect test. If you do the work and pass the class, then you should graduate. Punshing kids for failing the WASL is just wrong. Actually the WASL should be looked as a measure of the teachers ability also, lot's of failed students, fail the responsible teacher. Teaching is a job that can have very mediocre people putting in minimal effort and being rewarded for it. Many throw out the lesson plan and if it sticks the kid passes, if not the kid fails. Sometimes it ain't the kid's fault, the teacher didn't teach well. Make a airplane like that and you have evening news. A great teacher can motivate an imperfect student, a crappy teacher doesn't motivate anyone. Having a bi-lingual counselor is a good thing, not teaching classes in English is a bad thing, except maybe the foreign language classes :lol:

[SomeSailor]

Two of Diane's daycare parents are "educators" (They both HATE to be called teachers... but I slip quite often :D).

They hate the idea of the "No kid left behind." legislation. They're quite OK with a percentage falling through the cracks.

I say we leave a few teachers behind with every kid that doesn't make the cut. I know if there was a DIRECT correlation between their PAY and the kids WASL scores... you'd see some changes.

We need to invest in each of these kids. They're the future taxpayers each of us will depend on one day. It's a simple investment in our future.

[Randygh]

I totally agree with Gene and Mike. If teachers were paid according to their results in the classroom (not the WASL test scores), the kids would be better off. Kinda like Tedster selling boats. If Ted wasn't a good salesman (or BSer) he wouldn't be where he is. His salary is dependant on hard work, good communication skill and honesty. Too bad all of our kids' teachers or educators or whatever in the hell they want to be called don't have the same traits.

Yesterday I talked to my weekend employee, who is a sr. at Eastmont High School here in East Wenatchee. He said this year's sophomores won't be able to take as many electives next year because so many of them didn't pass the WASL. It seems now the teachers are teaching to pass the WASL. I'm not opposed to testing for knowledge, but I know from personal experience that some students have a problem taking tests, especially tests like WASL and that the test does not acurately reveal the students knowledge of the subject tested.

[SomeSailor]

My son's in the same boat. He's a sophomore this year.

After talking to the teachers I see here everyday... I can see where it's gone astray. They get so run down by the day-in day-out drudgery of it... I suspect they forget what brought them into education in the first place.

I wish there was some way to directly reward those that take the extra effort, and penalize those that fall short like anywhere else in the economy.

[Go Aweigh2452]

Weeeeelllll, teachers are being forced to teach to the WASL. That is overall a good thing because the WASL covers so much educational territory. But we also are responsible to teach to the NCLB and Washington state provides no funding for the training of teachers to teach to that. We take our own classes to get ourselves up to speed.

All teachers in the state are observed by trained school officials at least twice a year. Once announced and once unannounced (in our district). Others are different due to THEIR union contract... Our school use to do a lot of cohort training for new teachers and they could audit other teacher classes (that means go to another teachers class during your planning period and observe how they teach and hopefully learn from them). The state had money provided to cover those minimal costs but took it all away a few years ago due to budget shortfalls. Now if a teacher audits a class and the union finds out they did it without pay, they can be reprimanded because they are "setting" a bad example and can lead to abuse by school administrators to mandate teachers audit or go to training classes without pay.

You want to fix the system, kick the union out of the classrooms... did I say that???

Fortunately, I can elect not to be in the union because I am an anomaly. No other teachers can make that decision. All others must be union...

This means to me that if I screw up, The union won't represent me. That is why I have liability insurance and retain counsel on my own dime. It saves me about $50/month over paying union dues.